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Post by wayne on Jun 15, 2011 21:31:11 GMT -5
EDIT: The reason for the two positions have been resolved. See page 2 of this thread. There seems to be a couple of places where your kickstart ends up. The first photo, I believe, shows the correct position: EDIT: Nope, now know both are "correct". However, on reassembling the blue bike below, I found that it has a different position. I've seen this position in magazine photos of some test bikes back in '75. My friend has a low mile very original bike which looks like it's never been disassembled and it too, has this position. I believe this position is not correct EDIT: Nope again, correct for an early bike. It touches the inside of your leg in the riding position and is annoying. So much so that my mate has removed his kickstart and fitted a neat machined plug over the spline. But it cannot be easily changed EDIT: as we now know, not without fitting the later part number kickstart shaft. One spline clockwise and it won't fit behind the waterpump cover and one spline back it is way too far back. It seems to me that the only way to alter this is to dissassemble the gearbox (!) and move the spline somehow EDIT: can't be done. Requires later part # shaft. However, there is no instruction, that I can find, in the book regarding a "correct" alignment of the kickstart spline during assembly. In fact, there's no instruction at all. The kick lever spline block has a punchmark on it, but there is no complimentary punchmark on the spline shaft itself. As noted, it seems some bikes have squeaked out of the factory like this EDIT: and they'd be early bikes, approx before 13,200 Frame #. Wayne
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gerryggg
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Post by gerryggg on Jun 18, 2011 7:39:34 GMT -5
As you say, some of the bikes sneaked out the factory like this. That, combined with the fact that the bikes are extremely hard to kickstart, I believe, are what led the factory to ship the 1976 models with the kickstart lever stored rather than installed. I don't know of any way to ensure perfect posotion. I think it is pure luck which of the two positions it ends up at.
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Post by wayne on Jun 18, 2011 17:00:46 GMT -5
Yes, there is possibly some truth in this.
In fact, Sam told me that the original shipments of the M model to the U.S. were sent without kickstarts. Supply of kickstarts were to be purely an option. But the shipment stalled on the docks as, at the time, US design rules required a kickstart.
It was a scramble by Suzuki to find suitable kickstarts to put on the bikes and get them off the docks. Subsequent shipments had the kickstart supplied.
I wasn't aware that the 76's were shipped with the kickstart stored (do you know where ? - at least the 75 GL1000 Goldwing had an appropriate place to store the kickstart lever).
I have subsequently found a photo of the bike that I'm rebuilding as it was before I started and the kickstart is in the odd position shown (phew !). You don't really notice these things in the first instance.
Perhaps Suzuki didn't care too much about the position, but having said that, I reiterate that this position is ergonomically crap. Both my M and A model have the position shown in the top photo (fortunately).
Wayne
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Tonny
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Post by Tonny on Jun 19, 2011 7:29:28 GMT -5
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gerryggg
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Post by gerryggg on Jun 19, 2011 12:39:57 GMT -5
It's possible I'm remembering one of the original RE5M models without the lever. It was over 30 years ago. ;D I do know it eventually got a lever because it was our demo. I was riding it with my first (ex)wife the day I bought her engagement ring. We came out of the jewellery store and the starter clutch failed (not an uncommon occurrence on the M models). I had to kick-start it the rest of that day. It took a very different technique than the Norton I had been riding before. I'll see what I can dig up at work and through my contacts at American Suzuki about the RE5A models and the location of the kick-start lever.
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Post by wayne on Jun 19, 2011 17:14:58 GMT -5
You've quite a history with the RE5 there Gerry, and the ex is caught up in it too.
Always pleased to here from someone with inside information.
Wayne
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gerryggg
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Post by gerryggg on Jun 20, 2011 14:12:34 GMT -5
I dug around at work today and found a factory micro-fiche for the RE5M & A. Parts aren't listed in their on-line electronic parts catalogue for the RE any more. I wish I could find a copy of the factory service manual, but I think all the copies we had were destroyed. If someone is interested I could see if I can reproduce the fiche, or barring that, get it printed and scanned.
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Post by hudson on Mar 14, 2020 11:14:55 GMT -5
I have this same undesired kickstarter location on all 3 1/2 RE5's in my possession, they all have the same rearward lever as in the pictures Wayne posted above. I'm about to start the reassembly and looked to see if this was due to any spline timing issue. The shaft has 6 splines on the internal end for the stop and timing marks to time the spring hole with the stop. 18 splines on the kickstart end so any change to the 6 spline end equals exactly 3 for the kickstarter and no position change. The stop could be modified to effect a change, but I doubt that Suzuki did that as this part was used in other models such as the GT550 and I see no change in the stops part number. I am asking if these two positions occur with the same kickstart lever on the two different bikes, is the timing of the spline in the lever the same in both? If so then a change was made in the timing of the two splines on the shaft. There was a change to the shaft part numbers last digit from a 0 to a 1 which may indicate a design change. Any help in solving this mystery would be greatly appreciated. Do all A models have the forward position? Regards, Brian
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Post by wayne on Mar 14, 2020 16:17:36 GMT -5
Photos from magazine tests back in the day show both kick start positions. So that probably means that there was probably no production change and it was a random result of assembly in the factory. And I haven't tried to see if I can get both positions on the one bike (current owner photos on the forums randomly show either position, they're all over the place).
As for A model positions, so hard to say. Most of them were M's. We've got a new member with an M that is frame 15213.
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Post by hudson on Mar 14, 2020 16:55:58 GMT -5
It is absolutely not an assembly issue. I think either the spline is machined at a different index rotation in the lever mounting block or maybe lever has different bends or the shaft has a different index between the two splines machined into the shaft. I believe if levers from both locations are swapped or compared closely we will have our answer. If the levers prove to be identical from both positions then I believe it is the shaft that changed. I don't think frame numbers will indicate when this may have changed, but engine numbers may.
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Post by timpa136 on Mar 14, 2020 19:39:18 GMT -5
Does anyone elses jamb up on the footpeg at bottom travel?
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Post by hudson on Mar 14, 2020 21:41:08 GMT -5
Do you have a RE5 with the forward position that jambs up on the footpeg ?
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Post by wayne on Mar 14, 2020 22:37:41 GMT -5
My M is a forward position but never jams on the footpeg. I have a short friend with the rearward kick position and the biggest problem is it touches the inside of his leg and pushes it out which he really doesn't like.
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Post by pmcburney on Mar 14, 2020 23:21:38 GMT -5
Given that the kickstart is nigh-on useless anyway, the simplest way to resolve this issue is to quickly and permanently re-position the kickstart lever to the drawer where you store the 'B' points.
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Post by hudson on Mar 14, 2020 23:23:10 GMT -5
Does the rearward position kickstarter jam on the footpeg ? I am still in search of which piece is different ?
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