Esoteric Kickstart question

[timpa136]

Mar 14, 2020 23:23:10 GMT -5 hudson said:

Does the rearward position kickstarter jam on the footpeg ? I am still in search of which piece is different ?

I have two vin# 12,000 range rearward, one jambs more than the other.  I have 2 Vin#15,000 range forward that do not jamb.

Maybe something I pointed out at the rotary owners seminar but I do not recall.

[timpa136]

Mar 14, 2020 23:23:10 GMT -5 hudson said:

Does the rearward position kickstarter jam on the footpeg ? I am still in search of which piece is different ?

    I swapped a forward mounting (late?) kickstarter with the rear mounted bike. I see no differences visually comparing.

The kick start levers interchanged do not change conditions ,forward or rearward.

[wayne]

I found an arguably "correct" "S" shaped Kickstarter which ends up sitting effectively in the same place as the original. So no difference in the splines on that one either. It can only be moved internally if at all.

[hudson]

Mystery Solved. Thanks to Tim (timpa136) The comparison swap of levers confirmed that it was not a difference of the spline in the lever. I knew from looking at the parts on the bench before assembling them that there was no way to effect the lever location by any timing issue internally. Tim sent me a late Vin. number shaft that is 2mm longer ( 6.192 overall vs 6.112 ) this would cure the foot peg interference issue. But as for my question as to what is different, the outer spline for the lever is indexed 13 degrees forward from my early shaft. There are 18 splines for the kick starter which makes them 20 degrees of rotation each and we know that moving one spline forward on the rearward/early shaft puts it to far forward to clear the water pump area. We can see there had been a part number change for the shaft from 26300-37000 to 26300-37001 but no service bulletin to document this change.
Brian

[wayne]

Trying to get a handle on this- so what you're saying is that there is no difference in the splines in the kickstart levers themselves.


I ask because I have a friend with Vin/Eng #11705/#11412 (steel tube oil cooler lines) and Vin/Eng #13476/#13187 (rubber oil cooler lines). They both sit rearward.

My own M and A are Vin/Eng #13812/#13544 and #13977/#13729 and they sit forward.

[hudson]

It's all in the shaft. Early VS late. I think it's in the engine number as Suzuki seamed to use that in their service bulletins in documenting changes in the engine and frame numbers to document chassis changes.
It looks like you have narrowed the change to a 357 spread for when the change took place. 13544 minus 13187 = 357 Most of their bulletins of change show an engine or frame number as to what and when the change was made, but kick starter shaft is not mentioned at all.
On a curiosity note bulletin #13 for the 2nd and 3rd gear upgrade doesn't mention a frame or engine number but references the GT which shares the same transmission dimensions except the input shaft and the new gears use the RE part number suffix -37000 which make me think this was for the RE5 . I have two engines apart, Engine #11171 that has the upgraded gear tooth count (I'm positive it had not been disassembled previously) and #10866 that has the old tooth count. very narrow window of 305.
Brian

[wayne]

Thanks Hudson.

Early is rearward kickstart, late is forward.

[hudson]

Yes and yes, Also thanks to Tim

[timpa136]

Between your engine number and Waynes bike there is a rather narrow range already. Interesting if between our forum members we could

pin down an exact number point of the change.

Also thanks to Tim. You are most welcome Hudson.

Tim

[hudson]

It will be interesting if members would post any engine numbers between 13187 and 13544 and which kick starter location that engine has. ( see Wayne's pictures at the start of this Thread)

Brian

P.S. Suzuki service bulletin # RE-1 mentions that all RE's before frame # 10753 were shipped without kick starters. It's been said that they could have any one of a few different levers on those. 

[wayne]

Yes, you me and timpa136 would like to pin down some of these changes to VIN or Engine numbers. Please advise if you've got a rearward or forward kickstart especially if your engine number is around the 13,300 mark.


Re the kickstarter, I saw this one advertised on Ebay as a new item 10 years ago and grabbed it. It matches the part shown in both types of parts book that I have but is different to what many of the bikes were sold with (they were more GT750 style).

I recall a note, probably by Sam Costanzo that said the original deliveries of the RE5 to the US were held on the docks as they didn't comply with the then-current requirement to have a kickstart. There was a scrabble apparently to find any kickstart that would work and fit to the first bikes.

There is also a small rubber cap with a Suzuki "S" on it which was fitted to these bikes that didn't have a kickstart. Of course I have one and I'd show you but it'd take me too long to get it from the safe.