Some RE5 history

[multistrada1]

I'm always interested in everything RE5. When I graduated from high school in the 70's, I was engrossed in Suzuki motorcycles. My folks said if I got good grades they would let me buy a new motorcycle.
They were a bit concerned when I decided on a GT750, but it was a touring bike and a step up from the GT550 I had at 16. The GT750 lasted me through college and some amazing trips around the country.
I bought my first RE5 in 1984 and still have a nice 76 model I ride quite a bit.

Semi retired now with a long history in the motorsports. I was working with a client recently on a Viper racecar I supported over the years. They had a tool company that made specialty tools for Snap On, and  made all the special tools for Suzuki motorcycles back in the day. They mentioned a contact they had at Suzuki was still around and ran the whole dealer support operation back in the day.

The focus of this post is some very interesting history on the RE5. Jim Kirkland, the person who I met with, pretty much ran the dealer support for the RE5 in the US back then. He went to Japan and worked with the engineers on the release of the the RE5. He mentioned that the engineering department was still in the development stage and they made a mad scramble to get it ready for final production. The design and application were good, but the details where still being worked out. The hopes where to refine the design more in hopes to switch over to a twin rotor design later. Suzuki corporate was concerned about what Yamaha was doing with a similar project and times where changing with emission mandates in the US, as well a gas crisis developing in the states. 

Jim mentioned the testing they did on the early production bikes. First off, the styling was very different, and the engine looked different from anything ever seen. Not well accepted. Suzuki indicated they wanted to show that they had the best engineers in the world and could master this new rotary technology. The bike performed very well, with a top speed of close to 120 and handling that was better than the BMW's of the day. Much better than the GT750. Oil and fuel consumption where high on the early models, mostly due to the fitment of the rotor side seals. Even with these issues, the bikes were bulletproof and never failed, although some lost compression.

The preproduction bikes had rock hard seats, and he indicated they tried multiple combinations and lots of riding to come up with the final production seat.

Jim mentioned working with astronaut Ed Mitchell on endorsing the RE5. Ed was very critical and insisted on a full teardown and reassembly of a bike, which he took part in. After that he agreed to support the launch of the bike.
Ed claimed that he was a accomplished rider, but ended up falling off a few times during testing at Riverside raceway.

Once the RE5 got to the dealers, there where lots of issues. They did not know how to work on the bike and made adjustments that made things worse. The tuning was critical and oil consumption was high. Jim went around the country 
with a crew, adjusting port timing and accelerator pump volume and rebuilding engines. The big issue was getting the rotor side seal clearance just right, once perfect, the compression and oil consumption issues where gone. Knowing the 
dealers could not repair these motors, he opened a special factory rebuild shop, just to do them for the dealers. Later on, Suzuki sent updated replacement rotor proper units to the dealers which took care of those issues.

Jim did mention the touring kit was made by Califia and the person in charge of that knew nothing about motorcycles, but knew how to get vendor products at volume for cheap, thus the styling suffered.

The timing of the bike was not good, the restyling in 1976 did not help and Suzuki moved onto the GS750 4 stroke, which was a great success.

Jim indicated that the patents Suzuki had for fixing the issues related to the rotary engine where sold and ended up covering much of the cost of the development.

Just what I heard, stories tend to change over time, but it was cool to hear from someone who was there in the day.

[wayne]

Great read MULTISTRADA. Thanks for posting. I'm sure Jim meant Ed Mitchell, the astronaut. But at our age, I'm doing well remembering anyone's name 5 minutes after introduction.

Funny about the seat. The GT750 seat remains one of the most comfortable from that era. Trying to develop a specific seat for the RE5 seems a waste of R&D. Especially given the rock hard first iteration and what they got in the end isn't the greatest for the rider. Should have just tweaked a GT seat to fit.

[janski]

An excellent read, thank you for sharing.

That seat, there were after market seats possibly meant for touring similar to a saddle, looked comfortable but ugly.

[wayne]

I had one of those seats (by Mr Seats in CA I believe). Slightly better but not an ideal solution. May have worked better with highway pegs but that was one step too far for me.

[timpa136]

Seats, there were quite a few aftermarket seats available.

Agree on the Mr. Seats as my Wifes bike had it a light plastic pan that did not hold up.

One additional modification Rotorious performed for Maries bike along with the suspension, etc. was do some magic

with a carving knife and customized the foam for my wife and transferred it to a stock steel pan, Big improvement and many complements.

[wayne]

That's impressive re ROTORIOUS skills with a knife. I've had professionals hack away at car and motorcycle seats sometimes not with great results.

And agree re the plastic pan. Mine was 35 years old when I bought it and first ride it crumbled like a crispy Taco wrap.

[timpa136]

Big thanks for that lucky encounter with Mr. Jim Kirkland. Your posting takes me back to my enthusiasm then of the RE5 although I

was so green behind the ears, just slightly less so now.

Tim

[multistrada1]

I met with Jim again last week. For those that do not know, he was the project manager in the US for RE5 launch. He went to Japan and and oversaw much of the final development on the RE5 motor.
He also did all the testing of the bikes in the US, as well as the product support.

He was quite excited about the poster Timpa provided me of Apollo Astronaut Jim Mitchell and his endorsement of the RE5. He worked with Jim and had some great stories about their time together.

Jim is an older guy and timing out like most of us. If anyone has any questions about the history of the RE5 from his perspective, might be good to pose them now. This way they can be saved to the forum
as a legacy item.

[Framitron]

I would love to chat with Jim. I'm sure he has good stories about the late nights for him and the Suzuki team as they were under the crunchtime schedule to get the bike done.
-My first question would be about the idler/primary chain and if it is associated to the grinding vibration?
-Does he have any pictures of the bike in its early development?
-Any truth to the "Suzuki threw everything in the ocean" rumor? (I think that has been debunked but I'm curious if he has any comments)
-Most importantly: Is he still in touch with any engineers from Suzuki who worked on it back in the day?

I have other questions but those are a few that come up right now.

Thanks!

Al

[wayne]

This is not meant to say not to ask Jim. Please ask.

However, the first question, just to ensure we're not blaming the primary drive for the core problem. There is a technical article somewhere in my collection and probably on the Board which doesn't deal with the RE5 I don't think but wankels in general. It says (with diagrams), at a certain point in the combustion process (IE corresponding with a certain rpm), a back pressure wave is formed that reflects off the leading side of the chamber undergoing combustion and works to slow the rotor against the push of the expanding gases towards the centre and rear of the chamber. This is, according to the article, the source of the vibration and it's a feature of all wankel engines. Perhaps they may be different with regard to peripheral or side ported engines but this reverse pressure wave is the source.

Personally, it matches what I feel in the bike, a slight reluctance to accelerate when in that band (and no, I'm not confusing a carburetion flat spot with it, it's something far more subtle).

If I find the time, I'll hunt the article down and make a post.

I personally suspect it's exacerbated by the type of primary drive Suzuki chose. It would be interesting to hear Jim's take on it.

[Framitron]

Hi Wayne, Just seeing this now. Hmm, that pressure wave theory is interesting. I would be curious what that article says. I have Jan Norbye's wonderful book and will peruse it to see if it mentions anything like that.
Thanks!