Brake banjo thread spec

[toddyboy]

I'm about to refit my RE5M with new hydraulic brake lines and instead of the current setup, which employs a single hose from the master cylinder via a splitter to the two calipers, I'm going to fit a dual pipe system with each hose running directly from the Master Cylinder to each caliper. I did this on my 850 TDM and the difference was really noticable in front end stopping power.

I don't want to remove the existing setup at the moment cos its working ok. In fact they stop the old gal REALLY well, to be honest, but I also don't want to do any serious mileage with these old brake hoses on the bike, just in case they do fail at some point.

I'm probably going to order from Venhill Engineering as they have a good rep and are very near me in the UK and can also supply dark blue braided hoses which match the Firemist Blue colour of my bike. (Very sexy).

Venhill need to verify the thread and pitch of the original banjo bolts before dispatching them to me.

Does anyone know the actual thread/pitch of these?

[hudson]

All of the brake banjo bolts on the RE5 are 10mm X 1.0 Thread Pitch

[wayne]

Apr 15, 2020 7:46:14 GMT -5 toddyboy said:

I'm about to refit my RE5M with new hydraulic brake lines and instead of the current setup, which employs a single hose from the master cylinder via a splitter to the two calipers, I'm going to fit a dual pipe system with each hose running directly from the Master Cylinder to each caliper. I did this on my 850 TDM and the difference was really noticable in front end stopping power.

Please let us know if there is a noticeable improvement. People have asked about improving RE5 brakes but beyond certain pads and braided lines, there are not many options. I've not heard of this mod before.

[hudson]

I would think the feel might change with more ridged lines, but you would be adding more length to the lines. You can change the mechanical ratio by switching to a smaller bore master cylinder. This will take less pressure at your fingers to generate the same pressure in the calipers, but with slightly more lever travel. Any of Suzuki GT models with single disc from the same era have the same master cylinder casting (exact same appearance) but with a 14mm bore instead of a 16mm bore as the dual disc bikes have. Just a thought, It will make for a more aggressive braking feel. I doubt that the stopping distance can be changed much though.

[Neville]

Apr 15, 2020 7:46:14 GMT -5 toddyboy said:

I'm about to refit my RE5M with new hydraulic brake lines and instead of the current setup, which employs a single hose from the master cylinder via a splitter to the two calipers, I'm going to fit a dual pipe system with each hose running directly from the Master Cylinder to each caliper. I did this on my 850 TDM and the difference was really noticable in front end stopping power.

I doubt there will be any difference at all with twin lines, it makes no difference weather you split the lines at the master cylinder or half way down the line you will still get the same pressure and same volume of brake fluid at the calipers  with any given travel of the brake lever the difference you noticed on your 850TDM was probably due to the new twin lines you fitted being a bit more rigid than the old lines.

[goandy]

I put braided lines on my bike and didn't really notice any difference. To be honest, accept the brakes the way they are or install a more modern braking system with bigger discs and calipers (and matching M/C f course). One of my bikes is factory, the other, when I build it, will be modernised a bit with things like better brakes.

[wayne]

Apr 17, 2020 22:22:32 GMT -5 goandy said:

I put braided lines on my bike and didn't really notice any difference. To be honest, accept the brakes the way they are or install a more modern braking system

I agree on both points. Put braided on my GSX1100 and didn't really notice any difference (and only because I didn't feel like putting my new genuine ones on 'til I do a full resto). I think you'd only really feel it if the rubber ones were completely shot. And personally, I live with what I've got. Rather ride to the limits of the bike, it is what it is. Or I'd buy a modern bike.

[timpa136]

Good points, all. At some point the adhesion of the front tire is going to influence stops.

I agree with Wayne here to ride within the limits of the bike.

Accidents and resulting repairs may be costly, things to be avoided.

Tim

[pmcburney]

Gains in braking feel and effectiveness are incremental.


Brake lines that don't expand under pressure are a good step in the right direction and will make a small but noticeable difference to feel and (perhaps) some stopping power, especially if original lines are well past their use-by date, but there's a limit to how effective OEM RE5 brakes are, or any brake setups of that era for that matter.

There's good reasons why modern four piston calipers, the pads and compounds now available and large floating discs provide very effective and progressive braking compared to the stuff from the seventies, and almost all of them have nothing to do with the construction of the lines or their layout...

For example, my Hayabusa is fitted with rubber hoses from factory that 'split' at one of the calipers (the line to the second caliper runs over the top of the front guard from the first caliper), and they have an awesome, light feel, are very easy to modulate but will lock the wheel instantly if enough pressure is applied.

I doubt it's the layout or construction of the lines that enables that...

Personally, if I wanted to improve RE5 braking effectiveness somewhere closer to 21st century standards, I'd replace the entire front end with a more modern arrangement before I'd consider stuffing around with just the brake lines.

[wayne]

Apr 18, 2020 10:20:44 GMT -5 timpa136 said:

Good points, all. At some point the adhesion of the front tire is going to influence stops.
Tim

With completely standard brakes on the RE5 but using Vesrah pads I can squeal the modern Metzeler Lasertech front tyre from 50 mph using two fingers. With a full hand I can lock it no problems at all (AMHIK). And I believe the feel is more than acceptable.

[hudson]

Are you saying the Vesrah Pads are an improvement or the same as O.E.M. ?

[wayne]

Apr 18, 2020 21:52:33 GMT -5 hudson said:

Are you saying the Vesrah Pads are an improvement or the same as O.E.M. ?

The original asbestos pads, I was told by Sam were the best. But you can't buy those anymore. Vesrah pads seem the best of the AM varieties I've tried.

Jess got me to test some pads years ago. I did a thousand klm on each set then did multiple "controlled" braking tests using only the front on a specific part of a deserted road taking an average of the distances. Then changed pads and repeat 1000 klm later.

When I put the Vesrah pads in, I didn't need to wait 1000 klm. It was instantly obvious how good they were. Head and shoulders. I can't recall what the set prior to the Vesrah's were but for safety, I had been doing the brake tests using only two fingers. The idea being I could brake like crazy and not lock front wheel.

With the Vesrahs, I could squeal the front tyre with two fingers and am pretty confident I could lock them up (not something I wanted to test). Prior to the Vesrahs, no amount of two finger braking would bring the tyre to a lock up. EDIT: tyre was a modern, fully "run in" Metzeler LazerTech.

How are Vesrah vs original asbestos? Don't know, but no longer relevent.

[toddyboy]

Apr 17, 2020 22:22:32 GMT -5 goandy said:

I put braided lines on my bike and didn't really notice any difference. To be honest, accept the brakes the way they are or install a more modern braking system with bigger discs and calipers (and matching M/C f course). One of my bikes is factory, the other, when I build it, will be modernised a bit with things like better brakes.

All I know is that when I did this modification to my TDM the stopping power, and the 'feel' improved. TDM's aren't the fastest thing on two wheels but they're an awesome bike to ride when they're set up well and the engine is bulletproof. The original brake setup was pretty piss poor to be honest (a bit like the headlights) but now with the dual lines coming straight off the master cylinder and with EBC sintered brake pads fitted the bike just feels better and I have more confidence riding it fast than before. They also don't fade like they used to. Also fitted Pirelli Sport Demons. Very good tyres in my opinion. They've Improved the handling no end and they also last a very long time.