Re5 History by numbers.. frame engine number produced

[wayne]

Last updated February 10th, 2023.

This will be a thread under development. It firstly answers the FAQ, "how many RE5s were produced" and "how many A's vs M's".

There were numerous small changes to the RE5, some documented (steel to rubber oil cooler lines) some not (rearward kickstart to forward).

A certain frame or engine number denotes a change in bikes leaving the factory. However, many of these changes were sent out as kits to dealerships to retrofit. So you may have some of the updates even though your number predates the factory change.

Where "special" bikes are noted such as those sent to service schools, the list is not exhaustive. There could be many more, or not.

Can you narrow down what happened and where? Anyone with info, please post, I'll amend as I go. If you have a frame or engine number that could narrow down a certain change, please let us know (like when they went from the "under" engine coolant drain plug to the "front left" plug).

A number suffixed by F is a frame #, E an engine #. When I figure a better way to present this on the board, I will. What you see when editing a post is not what you get. So a bit clumsy to start with.

(SB) names the source as Suzuki Service Bulletin or other factory document, (OB) from comparing owner's bikes, (IS) from various industry sources, either known to board members, actual board members, salesmen from the day etc, (SU) means source unknown. They're in the notes of the person who supplied the information but its validity can't be confirmed. And finally (RR) information or bikes held by Rotary Recycle.

If you don't already know, Sam Constanzo, the original owner of Rotary Recycle was contracted by Suzuki in the early '70's to assist in the RE5 project as he was already involved in rotary motorcycles. The current owner, Jess Stockwell, worked closely with Sam for many years on both Rotary and other projects. Information provided by RR is a lot more than an enthusiast opinion.

10000F Start of pre-production?

10028F 10062E US Service School (IS)

10030F 10052E US Service School (IS)

10031F 10067E US Service School (IS)

10033F 10110E US Service School (IS)

10035F 10087E US Service School (IS)

10040F 10048E US Service School (IS)

10053F 10118E First production RE5 (SB and RR)

10121E ~ 10546E Small rotor size 73.35 mm radius (IS)

10054F 10149E Manufactured June 1974 (SU)

10056F First privately owned RE5 we have record of, property of Rotary Recycle USA (RR)

100076 Early production (now in UK). Among other things, instruments have "RE Oil" for metering oil tank warning light. Brushed finish on
blinkers, chrome fuel cap has embossed "arrow", steel oil lines, engine coolant drain not visible (still there, but under proper
unit. Sump needs to be removed to drain. Most interestingly, engine side plates are not "spirographed" with inlay. The whole side
housing is plated (OB), pinned brake lines on front calipers.

~10085F First shipments to the USA (RR)

10516E Molybdenum side housings on production bikes (IS) Speculation- this could be when the spiral pattern appears on rotor side
casings replacing the smooth finish of the early propers.

10547E ~ 10618E Large rotor size 73.65 mm radius (IS).

Also, from 10547E, Carby fuel filter changed from #200 mesh to coarser #120 mesh (this is because fuel tanks are now washed prior
to assembly. The coarser #120 mesh still only allows particles smaller than any jet to pass. (SB)

10738E First to have accelerator pump cover fitted from factory. (SB)

10502F 10208E US Service School (IS)

10506F 10250E Manufactured August 1974 (SU)

10583F 10312E US Service School (IS)

10630F 10245E Manufactured September 1974 (SU)

10672F 10354E Manufactured October 1974 (SU)

10720E Restrictor air jet (#09492-40005) no longer installed in air tube to 2ndry butterfly actuating diaphragm. Bell housings now have
stronger spring to smooth vacuum pulses (IS)

10753F First to ship with kickstart levers, rubber battery vent tubes and vent tube clamp. (SB)

10619E ~ 10626E Small Rotor size 73.35 mm radius (IS)

10627E ~ 10630E Large Rotor size 73.65 mm radius (IS)

10631E ~ 10886E Small Rotor size 73.35 mm radius (IS)

10860F 10569 Has the higher engine coolant drain plug (OB).

10866E This bike still has original production 2nd and third gears (OB).

10887E and beyond Large Rotor size 73.65 mm radius (IS)

11171E This bike has the strengthened 2nd and 3rd gears with reduced tooth numbers (OB).

10920F 11205E Manufactured November 1974 (SU)

10613F 11359E Manufactured December 1974 (SU)

10754F Straight style long kickstart fitted at the factory. Prior to this, around 700 bikes left the factory without kickstarts and ended
up leaving dealers with a hodge podge of fittings. About 100 had the originally planned "Gooseneck" or "S" bend kickstart, others
were sold with GT750 kick starts and a handful sold with no kickstart and a rubber plug with the Suzuki S covering the spline. If
you have any of these part numbers as the bike's kickstart, they are all technically "correct". Prefix 26300-31000, -31001,
-31002, 37000. (IS)

11174F to 11424F Somewhere in here, the gas tank cap went from the "bump" cap with stamped "arrow" to a flat chrome cap. (OB/IS)

11727F Headlight switch now locked on for certain markets. (SB)

First production bike of 1975 (SU)

11174F Between here and 11424, front calipers changed to the later style without pinned lines (without the hole for the spigot pin of
earlier brake line banjo).


11662F In the first batch of 9 M's delivered to Coleman Suzuki NZ and sold in Christchurch (OB, IS)


11901F Reduced exhaust baffle pipe diameter from 29.5 to 24 mm from factory. (SB)


12054E New and more durable starter clutch fitted at factory. (SB)

12081F Oil Cooler change during factory assembly, rubber oil lines, no longer steel. (SB) Despite Bulletin RE14 clearly stating this, one
of our board members has Frame #12033 and it was factory fitted with the later oil cooler (rubber lines). Note also that it's not
only a change from steel to rubber lines. The oil cooler itself is different with oil "in" and "out" on opposite sides of the
bike. The later version has both "in" and "out" on the right side. You cannot simply fit the rubber lines to the earlier cooler or
vice versa.

12236F 12144E Manufactured January 1975 (SU)

12758E to 13544E RE5's have either a rearward or forward Kickstart position. This is not a simple lever-to-spline alignment. It's fixed internally
by design and can't be changed even on disassembly. Somewhere between 12758E and 13544E, the kickstart shaft spline
started to change. Mostly, earlier than 12758E kickstarts were more rearward. 12758E has a more forward position but 13187E is
also rearward. 13544E and 13729E are both forward and it seems that's dominant going forward. (OB) Do you have a bike within
these numbers? Is your kick start lever rear or fore? Thanks to Peter Paul and Malcolm Curnin (FaceBook members) for supplying
numbers and photos. The reason for the fore/aft kickstart is found in this thread:

re5rotary.proboards.com/thread/3268/kick-start-kickstarter-story

12965F New throttle grip with travel limiting lock screw fitted at factory. (SB)


13054E Carby modified to allow easy access to fuel filter (large removeable hex bolt on carb top allows access to filter). (SB)


13346E Inlet tract insulation blocks fitted during factory assembly. Disconnection of the chain oiler and fitting of an O ring chain. The
change to the #87.5 PMJ may also occur here. (SB)

13872F 13591E There is no clear delineation between the end of M and beginning of A models. However, around this number, M's become rare. Most
A's around this number are almost certainly reconfigured M's. See below for first evidence of a factory assembled A. Note the
factory itself converted many M's to A's. An industry source confirmed that although the bikes started life as Ms, any factory
conversions included A model Propers (A's had improved engine internals- see HERE). Already exported bikes that underwent dealer conversions
would have retained the proper unit they shipped with. As a rough guide, around 3,750 M's and 2,550 A's.

14000E Large Rotor size 73.65 mm, same as from 10887E retained but machining tolerance reduced from +/- 0.2 mm to +/- 0.1 mm (IS)

15689F 15516E Alleged by Australian importer to be one of the first factory built A models. This one was shipped to Australia (July 1976) and
was a sponsorship giveaway. It completed a trouble free lap around the coast of Australia. Gives a ballpark for when factory
assembly of A's began? (IS). Confusing as below VIN #15971 still has what the parts book shows as the "M" model rear fender.

15909F 13335E Manufactured Apr 1975 (OB) Kickstart is forward on this one but fitted with chain oiler. Another conversion after the alleged
first genuine A? First we know of with the "good" rubiks cube sized black rectifier fitted. NB: The owner has confirmed this very
unusual Frame/Engine # combination (member FRAMITRON). As far as he knows, the original owner bought it this way.

15971F This bike is still fitted with the old style rear guard (OB) that hangs from the cross frame member under the seat. It has no
mounts in the side of the frame to take the later style guard. The later guard is shown in the parts book as the "A" model guard.
Does this mean that bikes up to and including this VIN are still converted M's? (note the factory themselves converted already
produced bikes from M to A as well as shipping out kits for Dealer conversions).

16036F 15363E Manufactured May 1975 (SU)

16296F 15720E Second last off the production line? In Australia.

16297F Highest number in this record, do you have a higher frame number? Please post. Last known in Germany.


Unknowns: Introduction of late rear mudguard. Change from "machined" indicators to cast pot metal. Change from under engine coolant drain to engine front left. Removal of many switch block holders under tank and under seat (that's also in the 13187E to 13544E bracket).

If you have a bike with some of these features, for example the "invisible" under engine coolant drain, please post your numbers. If you've got a low number bike with the front coolant drain, please post. Same for the other features.

Feel free to post any feature or historical note associated with an RE5 frame or engine number.

[timpa136]

Thank You for all the hard work assembling a detailed documentation, I am sure we will gain some insight into further production changes

as we all refresh our memories.  From Wayne,

Similarly, I'm trying to get a frame number from an owner in Austria. He has an Australian delivered bike that was given to him under a sponsorship deal back in the day. The Australian importer told him that the bike was "special" as it was a genuine factory assembled A model.

I only have a presumed best guess from a Rep. who came a little later in the program that the last 200 A models built, had the good Rectifier
( black the size of a rubik's cube), I refer to as  the TS-400 rectifier, fitted as original equipment. My new A rectifier (brand forgotten)

had the black soft potted back side.  Anyone else bought a late A and had no rectifier problems?

Moderator EDIT: with bike 15909, it looks like the black "rubik cube" sized rectifier goes back at least 400 from production end.

[charles]

Mar 26, 2020 19:48:52 GMT -5 timpa136 said:

Anyone else bought a late A and had no rectifier problems?

I blew out a rectifier on my "A" so  it must not have been a later one.  I remember it as painted gray.

Also, I had a Promotional Poster from somewhere (Hi, Jess!!!) and the water pump plate had an etched pattern where every RE-5 I've ever seen was smooth.

CW

[timpa136]

Mar 26, 2020 21:04:04 GMT -5 charles said:

Mar 26, 2020 19:48:52 GMT -5 timpa136 said:

I blew out a rectifier on my "A" so  it must not have been a later one.  I remember it as painted gray.

Also, I had a Promotional Poster from somewhere (Hi, Jess!!!) and the water pump plate had an etched pattern where every RE-5 I've ever seen was smooth.

CW

That's the one, although mine was a "burnt Gray"  Luckily it has been said electrical failures usually occur under warranty as mine was.   Tim

[steve w]

hi wayne
I have a 1975 RE5 M im in the uk. its a us import .frame no 10147 engine no 10169. where would this come on the list,

many thanks steve

[wayne]

That's a very early frame number. It's only 147 since the numbers started and probably only around 90 odd since they started being available to the public (many early bikes were corporate gifts or sent to teaching schools).

A nice bike to have. Many quirky little things that are not present on the later bikes but make it "special".

[Jess]

Wayne,

Thank you for all you do.

Best

[wayne]

Apr 21, 2020 22:32:46 GMT -5 Jess said:

Wayne,

Thank you for all you do.

Best

Thanks mate, I'm an enthusiast, nothing more. Can't help myself......

[Framitron]

I have a late model A. F15909, E13335. Manufactured in April 1975 according to the VIN plate. Purchased new in Massachusetts USA. I got it from the original owner.

Chain oiler: Fitted. It is messy but I like the fact that I don't have to lubricate the chain so I am keeping it.
Chain: Came with the non-O-ring chain. I replaced it with an O-ring chain. Not sure if the oil drip is bad for the rubber. Doesn't seem to be but I never thought about that when I changed it at 15K miles.
Kickstart lever position: forward
Rectifer: Black Rubic's cube type. It did fail at 19K miles though, but since its not the cursed selenium rectifier type I just replaced it with the exact type again.
Inlet insulation block: Fitted. Not sure if it was added by the dealer though.
Fuel cap: No embossing other than the straight knurling on the periphery.
Coolant drain: White plastic hex bolt under the radiator.
Underseat electrical connector holder bracket: Not present.
Headlight switch: Permanently on. (But I filed off that little tab so that I can kill the headlight if I am ever dealing with trying to start it on a cold day with low battery. ask me how I know...)

[wayne]

Many thanks Framitron. Your bike's details have been incorporated above.

Certainly lends creedence to the belief that all RE5 manufacture had ceased in 1975, even early '75. Your number is very late in the production line. It also lends some creedence to the hypothesis that nearly all RE5's were made as M's. I guess the non O ring chain may have been added by the original owner? But the existence of a chain oiler is definitely M.

I have a published interview with Sam Costanzo where he talks about the factory converting M's to A before shipping. He notes that he sold an RE5A in a crate to a fellow in the 2000s. The crate is marked "Blue" and the "Blue" is oversprayed and the crate marked "Black".

Yours has an interesting mix of M and A features. A lazy dealer conversion?

Thanks

[murphsprin]

On the bikes the dealer converted to 76s what did they do with frame numbers? Did they keep the original? Mine appears to be one that was repainted buy dealer or factory as I've noticed some old paint work. But the frame has never been stamped?

[wayne]

No changes were made to the frame numbers when the conversions were done. The kits were simply installed on the existing unsold bikes and the old stuff was required to be destroyed (in Australia at least).

Your missing frame number is a total mystery. For those who aren't privvy, MURPHSPRIN has bought an RE5 in boxes. But the frame doesn't have a number. While some countries had stickers on the headstocks with VIN details etc, they still had the number stamped into the headstock as well. His frame doesn't appear to have had the numbers ground off nor filled by a previous paint job or powder coat.

We speculated that a brand new frame may not have a number as modern replacement frames apparently don't. They "adopt" the number of the accident damaged bike that's having its frame replaced.

Anyone in the industry recall seeing a new RE5 frame back in the day or know if this was the case back then?

[timpa136]

The current bike on e-bay slightly tightens up the kick start lever

E#RE5-12809

12758E to 13544E RE5's have either a rearward or forward Kickstart position. This is not a simple lever-to-spline alignment. It's fixed internally
by design and can't be changed even on disassembly. Somewhere between 12758E and 13544E, the kickstart shaft spline
started to change. Mostly, earlier than 12758E kickstarts were more rearward. 12758E has a more forward position but 13187E is
also rearward. 13544E and 13729E are both forward and it seems that's dominant going forward. (OB) Do you have a bike within
these numbers? Is your kick start lever rear or fore?

[wayne]

May 29, 2022 15:48:41 GMT -5 timpa136 said:

The current bike on e-bay slightly tightens up the kick start lever

You'll get a reputation TIMPA.........

I was onto this and edited that post with the new numbers yesterday. But after a careful read, it doesn't tighten them up. That post notes a rearward kick start as high as 13187 so it wasn't worth changing. I went back and restored everything in the post to original until I think about it some more. Why did I have 12758 in there when 13187 is also noted? When I figure it out I'll update.

[timpa136]

Did anybody else already spot the really rare A&A rack?

Tim