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Post by Al Corelli on Aug 14, 2011 11:03:38 GMT -5
Beautiful Bike...
Maybe it is just a weak spring in the pressure regulator?
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Post by wayne on Aug 14, 2011 18:08:05 GMT -5
Thanks Al............make a nice bonfire at the moment.
I think it's time to get really methodical. Today I'm going to test the oil pressure gauge itself on another bike. Hate to find the gauge was faulty. Then move an entire clutch cover from an operating bike to this one to test the oil pump itself. If no joy, then the regulator. Problem is that the regulator is early model and different fittings for the oil cooler to my other two RE's. So I'll leave that to last.
Wayne
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Post by mike500 on Aug 14, 2011 18:23:06 GMT -5
wayne try a thicker oil and if that cures it pump is faulty
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Post by re5rotary on Aug 14, 2011 22:59:26 GMT -5
Hi Wayne I would check the regulator. Many years ago when I first got my bike going it had no oil pressure either and the problem was the regulator. It was assembled incorrectly I think from memory regards terry
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Post by wayne on Aug 15, 2011 0:26:19 GMT -5
Okay, I'll hold on removal of the clutch cover. I'll remove the regulator and compare it with an original never-disassembled one. Thanks for the comment Terry, a friend and I have been trying to work out if a faulty regulator could result in low oil pressure.
Mike, may sound a stupid question, but what viscosity would you recommend. I'm using bog standard Castrol GTX 20-40 at the moment. Should I use a straight 40 or straight 50 weight or higher ?
One of those days I'm afraid, my son crashed his bicycle during training and has been carted off to hospital in an ambulance. His mother, who's head was elsewhere with the incident crashed her car shortly after. Neither are serious, the boy has a dislocated shoulder and the wife's only bent fenders.
Wayne
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Post by wayne on Aug 15, 2011 4:01:55 GMT -5
Okay, original pressure regulator dismantled and compared to the problem bike. Unfortunately, it was assembled correctly and the springs are within book tolerances (although, in one case, a good 1 mm shorter than the low mile bike across a 55 mm length).
Mike- with regard to the higher viscosity oil. If that cures the problem, does it just implicate the pump or could bad main bearing tolerances still be suspect ?
Also, if it does not cure the problem, does it mean that the pump is probably okay but that there is either a main bearing tolerance issue or a leak somewhere ?
Thanks, Wayne
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Post by mike500 on Aug 15, 2011 11:14:01 GMT -5
hi wayne i would try a 50 weight oil and if that cures it would be suspicious of pump as thicker oil helps with tolerances
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Post by Jess on Aug 15, 2011 21:37:58 GMT -5
Wayne,
Just my 2 cents...
"If" it were the main bearings, they would have to be so worn that the E shaft would make a horrific clunking sound when the engine was started. I would even think that just cranking her would cause such colossal clunking that it would be noticable...
Even so, the unit would produce some (minimal) oil pressure. In my opinion, this rules out the mains...
If the pump is not priming itself and the bike has NO oil pressure, there is either a problem with oil pickup, the pump itself, or an obstruction in the oil passages.
1. Oil pickup... you have stated that the oil pickup tube is clear and not bocked, How about the passage into the trochoid pump. Take the oil filter off an run a wire up the passage to check for obstuction.
2. Pump itself, The oil pump is very robust. I have never seen one that did not meet spec. That said spec is listed in the manual, and I am sure you have another set lying about, if not I will send one. If it works, great, if not send it back.
3. Oil passages, take the clutch cover off, and start running compressed air through all the passages to amke sure they are clear.
One other suggestion, is to bypass the oil cooler lines and see what happens. There may be an obstruction, or pressure leak in the cooler.
Another way to check operation of the pump is unscrew the oil filter and use a flexible spout oil can. slide it up into the trochoid passage and start the motor at idle... that should prime the pump, it will make a huge mess, but at least you will know if the pump is actaully pumping while the motor is running.
Again,
Just my 2 cents...
Best of luck mate.
Jess
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Post by wayne on Aug 15, 2011 22:05:58 GMT -5
Thanks Jess. I've actually done everything you've suggested (see earlier posts). That includes running compressed air to check oil flow. All passages are clear. I even ran it without the oil filter until I'd got the pump working witnessed by the oil gush onto my floor.
The problem is no longer zero oil pressure. I got the pump to prime by pressurising the sump with compressed air.
The problem is now low oil pressure..........approximately half of Suzuki's guidelines (2.25 kg/cm at 4000 rpm instead of 5 kg/cm).
I've actually ridden the bike as the oil pressure light goes out. It was only when I connected the gauge did I realise that the pressure is still too low. So from what you say above, it seems that it is unlikely to be engine bearings. The bike has no unusual noises and in fact runs particularly smoothly. About the same power as my 20,000 mile bike.
I'm at the stage of working out if that is because of the pump, poor main bearings or a leak somewhere downstream of the pump. I am going to fit the complete clutch cover from a working bike and see if that cures the problem. That will immediately differentiate between a pump problem and a main bearing or pressure leak problem.
The only place where oil is leaking where it shouldn't be is out of the bottom of the alternator cover where the cables exit. This could only be because the seal behind the inner alternator rotor is leaking. However, the case behind the alternator rotor (with the timing inspection cap) is unpressurised so even if that seal leaks oil, it should not result in low oil pressure in the system (?).
Also, oil is not being pumped into the transmission (I've heard of this problem before due to a reversed seal). And there is no leaking coolant diluting the engine oil (another suggestion I've checked).
Thanks for the detailed input, will let you know final outcome, Wayne
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Post by wayne on Aug 16, 2011 0:13:16 GMT -5
If you're interested, some numbers for normal/typical oil pressures. I decided to first test the gauge itself before radical surgery.
This test done on a 32,000 klm bike with a good engine, not an exceptional one.
Fully warmed up:
1200 rpm: 1.6 kg/cm (Book spec minimum 0.5 kg/cm, 7 psi)
4000 rpm: 5.5 kg/cm (spec minimum 5.0 kg/cm, 71 psi)
Now that the gauge is verified, I'll swap clutch covers.
Wayne
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Post by wayne on Aug 19, 2011 20:03:16 GMT -5
Almost there. I swapped clutch covers from the bike tested above.
Problem solved, pressures good, slightly down on the figures above at 5.3 kg/cm.
That clears the regulator, the engine bearings and any leaks in the engine side of the casings.
Next I used the entire points casing, housing and rotors from the good bike on the bad bike's entire clutch housing. Problem solved, good pressures.
That isolates the problem to the pump and associated casings. The only problem is that the old pump passes all 3 tolerance tests. Only the side clearance test is marginal at 0.11 mm but that is still acceptable. There are no cracks or pinholes. The only tolerance that I can't test is the fit between the inside of the points casing and the rotors.
Unfortunately there's nothing for it but to fit my good rotors into the bad housings and see what happens. I don't want to buy new rotors to find that there's a fault with the points casing. If there was a clear cut tolerance issue, then that would be that.
Unfortunately, there is no tidy way to change clutch covers. No matter how thoroughly you drain the oil, there is always another 300 ml that pours out when the clutch cover is split. And draining the coolant from both drains is just messy. I hope GTX is good for my skin...........
Wayne
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Post by wayne on Aug 20, 2011 2:14:25 GMT -5
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