t140v
3rd Gear
Posts: 422
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Post by t140v on Oct 30, 2019 3:30:45 GMT -5
Just a quick update on the twin rotor RE5 project, there have been some design issues with the middle plate linked with of the cooling of it, but the rest is moving forward.
Not much to tell but at least the project is still alive.
Regards Stuart
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Post by goandy on Oct 30, 2019 4:30:18 GMT -5
Thanks Stuie!
Looking forward to any further updates. I was in touch with him and recall him saying there were cooling issues about a year back.
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Post by h2e Al In Aus on Oct 30, 2019 18:07:23 GMT -5
look forward to seeing photos of it and more info , hope it works ok
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Post by goandy on Oct 31, 2019 4:58:01 GMT -5
Me too. I really want to do this as well- have the rotor units sitting there waiting but I promised myself to clear a bunch of other projects first. Have a couple of off-road bikes and a car to go so... maybe ten years!
I do have all the plans in my head to do the joining of the two units, just need the time (and a bit of technical expertise to assist).
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Post by charles on Nov 10, 2019 20:15:57 GMT -5
Don't forget: www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/680461/This was the engine that powered the Ro-80. Two KKM-502s (Our RE-5 motor) with a central housing. CW
[Edit Note:
'N here is our trusty KKM-502 doubled up to the KKM-612 designation with...SOLEX CARBS!!! Why is that important? Mikuni licensed these things and what we have on the RE-5 traces back to Solex. See the SAE Paper on the RE-5.]
2. Speaking of the SAE, they are RILLY getting frustrating. Papers are up to $30 a pop and it is not easy to make your way around the SAE site. The above URL is correct, it simply reroutes to a Dead Link. Swell. I know I'm getting enthusiastic about joining or dealing with the SAE. /s, /s, /s. ***
So, somewhere there's a KKM-612 in mothballs. If you could find one, you'd find your Central Housing.
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Post by charles on Nov 15, 2019 20:27:48 GMT -5
KKM-612 from an Ro-80
Also:
CW
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Post by h2e Al In Aus on Nov 16, 2019 18:47:26 GMT -5
thank you for sharing those clips , when I was an apprentice I worked on the brakes of an R80 , remember thinking as we all looked at the strange engine , how could that work ? , WISH i COULD FIND ONE NOW !!!!!,
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Post by goandy on Nov 16, 2019 21:27:30 GMT -5
They are around in Australia, just hidden away. Every now and then I hear about them. Probably not many with the original nsu engine though.
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Post by goandy on Nov 16, 2019 21:37:26 GMT -5
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Post by charles on Nov 17, 2019 11:58:24 GMT -5
Or you could buy bits... but as I mentioned before the nsu centre plate is cast iron. On second thought, the coolant passages might not match up. Much work was done on the coolant pathways to get proper heat expansion throughout the motor. See: Curtiss-Wright. When you bought the License, part of the Promise was that you could have access to all Licensees work to use on your Project. The RE-5 evidently picked a certain different solution to coolant travel through the motor.
It's what I always wondered: What exactly was contracted by Suzuki for use with the RE-5 from NSU-Audi? Make NOOOO mistake about it. Suzuki truly advanced the State of the Art for Rotaries. In general, our RE-5s are bullet-proof.
There are, however, Tell-Tales: That damn Solex Carb. The curious use of a Woodruff Key to lock the Primary Take-Off Gear to the output shaft. (I lost a Proper Unit to a hogged-out Key groove.) The Double Points System, dropped for the A-Model.
"As regards rotor cooling, the feasibility of fresh gas cooling was checked but it turned out that the mean effective pressure was hard to raise to the needed level, we were forced to abandon the idea of air cooling and seek a solution in other directions...This guided our mind to conceive a water cooled rotor housing with the peripheral ports and an oil cooled rotor, cooled as in ordinary car engines...
"Basic specifications were laid out on the basis of this cooling arrangement, and our development was subsequently directed toward implementing the basic specs as soon as possible to commercially introduce a motorcycle powered by a rotary engine at an earliest date possible..."
Kamiya and Shirasagi, "Suzuki Production Rotary Engine...", SAE 770190.
So, there appeared to be deadline pressures on the Technicians. Decisions were made based on available alternatives - the Solex decision argues for a "Package Deal" for some of this. Somewhere, someone looked at using a 115 horsepower KKM-612 for a Suzuki motorcycle. The Ducati Diavel was not in anyone's minds at that time. Maybe it shouldn't be in anyone's minds today but they've sold 50,000 of the things so what do I know. Maybe Guzzi could make a 120 degree Shaft Drive bike - a modernized V50 - but I don't hold my breath here either.
When the Z-1 first came out, Cycle stated that 82 horsepower would not be denied. On the cover of the issue that had the first test of the RE-5, Cycle tested an iteration of the Z-1 - "The King...is Still the King". Oh, well. Later, there was "Eight for the Open Road", a comparison test of eight Tourers. The RE-5 was "Average", with one exception. It was crowned the Heavyweight Champion of Big Bike handling.
Give me a trashed GS-850 and a day at the machine shop and I'll take the Shaft Drive and cure the lower scores from that Touring Comparison. And a different carburetor.
Keep up the Good Work. The basic KKM-502 was a Perfect Engine (of which there are many). Our RE-5 has many examples still on the road today. It is still a Thing of Beauty.
I drink too much coffee.
The Best to you,
Charlie
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Post by Jess on Nov 17, 2019 12:34:05 GMT -5
Charles...
Nice post... Spot on!
Best,
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Post by charles on Nov 19, 2019 18:38:06 GMT -5
Allow me to muck-up this Thread some more. Spent the day at the Suzuki Shop. No help. [Note: The Parts Guy was very helpful. Just no sprags on the computer screen] No Cross References. I did get the wrong Part #...
Came home and hit the 'Net. No luck yet although I did find a coupla' pictures that looked EXACTLY like our Sprag Clutch. From the BMW side of things, BMW used some Sprag Clutches (K Series, esp.) but I don't believe that Suzuki would have contracted with Audi/NSU for m/c Clutch Assemblies. Maybe tomorrow. This is getting serious, even for an Obsessive such as Yours Truly. Somewhere, there's a Japanese Supplier who has a warehouse full of these things.
I'm gonna find that warehouse.
CW
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Post by goandy on Nov 19, 2019 18:57:16 GMT -5
I would have thought that Sam Costanza would have found them if they existed hence Jess would have known. But yes, you never know. I found two complete motors in the US- the whole shebang including gearboxes, air filter housings, carburettors, oil coolers, radiators, cables etc, all NOS. Never thought I'd find those!
Good luck with the hunt.
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Post by HGH 770N on Nov 20, 2019 1:16:10 GMT -5
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Post by goandy on Nov 20, 2019 4:53:40 GMT -5
Looks very similar, obviously dimensions will be the crucial part. We can always sleeve the clutch hub surface to suit as well...
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