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Post by pmcburney on Oct 16, 2018 17:19:48 GMT -5
Because Wayne set me the challenge (yeah, thanks mate) I've created this thread to document the (hopefully) upcoming project of fitting EFI to my RE5. I'm currently in very early negotiations with a local EFI (and turbo if it comes to it) guru about doing a complete electronic fuel injection and ignition conversion which will finally consign that abominable original carb and antiquated ignition setup to the scrap bin forever. I'll upload information and pics reasonably regularly as things progress and keep the collective informed of the trials and tribulations and ask questions of the more knowledgeable as I go along. I intend the build to be as simple as possible - the parts used will be readily-available new and second-hand items and any other mods done will be completely reversible, naturally If it's successful, a 'kit' or a list of parts and a method of fitment could be made available for any other owners brave dumb enough to give it a go themselves... Firstly though, I need some info concerning the output of the stock alternator to determine if it's capable of running an EFI fuel pump and the bike and its lights etc. all at the same time. What exactly is the stock alternator output and has anyone increased it for a similar project or for any other reason? Otherwise, stay tuned!
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Post by timpa136 on Oct 16, 2018 17:56:03 GMT -5
Because Wayne set me the challenge (yeah, thanks mate) I've created this thread to document the (hopefully) upcoming project of fitting EFI to my RE5. I'm currently in very early negotiations with a local EFI (and turbo if it comes to it) guru about doing a complete electronic fuel injection and ignition conversion which will finally consign that abominable original carb and antiquated ignition setup to the scrap bin forever. I'll upload information and pics reasonably regularly as things progress and keep the collective informed of the trials and tribulations and ask questions of the more knowledgeable as I go along. I intend the build to be as simple as possible - the parts used will be readily-available new and second-hand items and any other mods done will be completely reversible, naturally If it's successful, a 'kit' or a list of parts and a method of fitment could be made available for any other owners brave dumb enough to give it a go themselves... Owners note duly noted, Tim Firstly though, I need some info concerning the output of the stock alternator to determine if it's capable of running an EFI fuel pump and the bike and its lights etc. all at the same time. What exactly is the stock alternator output and has anyone increased it for a similar project or for any other reason? Otherwise, stay tuned! Output per manual is 280Watts@5000 RPM @100 centigrade.My experience is to hard wire the rectifier connector. Note: the early bikes had two wires each up to the connector. Tim............ and good luck!
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Post by jm0406 on Oct 16, 2018 18:30:56 GMT -5
With as much time as you seem to have on your hands, you might go forth and look for the Holy Grail and the Lost Ark also. Jeff
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Post by pmcburney on Oct 16, 2018 19:08:25 GMT -5
With as much time as you seem to have on your hands, you might go forth and look for the Holy Grail and the Lost Ark also. Jeff Heh... This won't be a fast project - I hold down two full-time jobs. Plus all the other stuff I do with my 'spare' time that will get in the way... Don't expect daily updates
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Post by h2e Al In Aus on Oct 19, 2018 23:25:29 GMT -5
this should be interesting you need to talk to mazda guys as to fuel setting , there is a perfect place for crank sensor in timing check hole , two injectors would work well ,but you may get away with one, controlling fuel pressure and duration of injection , once you put an O2 sensor in you are on it but fueling needs to be close to right air fuel settings
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Post by pmcburney on Oct 21, 2018 16:27:37 GMT -5
I'll have some insight into the Mazda mindset as the guys I'm working with have experience fitting EFI (and turbos!) to Mazdas and getting them to run right.
Not sure exactly what type of throttle body might be suitable, but two injectors might be necessary.
At this stage, the thinking is that the points housing can be used/modified to accept a crank angle sensor - I'll let y'all know if that's viable, but the timing port could otherwise be a possibility.
O2 sensor should be able to mounted into the exhaust manifold, hopefully (has been done previously by a member here to measure AFR).
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Post by Jess on Oct 22, 2018 4:29:59 GMT -5
Geeze... you mean it's not up and running yet? Where is my kit? Cheers buddy... P.S. comments about "antiquated ignition" I take personally... I thought my plug and play ignition was rather brilliant.
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Post by pmcburney on Oct 22, 2018 17:02:31 GMT -5
Geeze... you mean it's not up and running yet? Where is my kit? Cheers buddy... P.S. comments about "antiquated ignition" I take personally... I thought my plug and play ignition was rather brilliant. The kit is coming... Mate, your ignition is brilliant - I was actually referring to the dodgy (everyone who has ever put a timing light on their RE5 knows this) bob-weight advance mechanism still in place in the points housing. I intend circumventing that arrangement entirely by using your hall-effect pickup to trigger the EFI ECU and then let it handle the advance solely. This project wouldn't really be possible without your ignition, Jess, so rest assured it's brilliant and very much appreciated!
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Post by jm0406 on Oct 22, 2018 18:23:54 GMT -5
Nice save. Jeff
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Post by Jess on Oct 22, 2018 22:46:48 GMT -5
Geeze... you mean it's not up and running yet? Where is my kit? Cheers buddy... P.S. comments about "antiquated ignition" I take personally... I thought my plug and play ignition was rather brilliant. The kit is coming... Mate, your ignition is brilliant - I was actually referring to the dodgy (everyone who has ever put a timing light on their RE5 knows this) bob-weight advance mechanism still in place in the points housing. I intend circumventing that arrangement entirely by using your hall-effect pickup to trigger the EFI ECU and then let it handle the advance solely. This project wouldn't really be possible without your ignition, Jess, so rest assured it's brilliant and very much appreciated! Cheers Buddy...
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Post by h2e Al In Aus on Oct 25, 2018 19:43:21 GMT -5
As your in Aus you may think about , check out EA falcon 6 cyl single point injection (in throttle body), if I remember correctly it had duel throats and one injector or duel throat with 2 injectors one primary and one secondary ,worked very well (as good as multi point ) , its just a thought , I know a guy that put 3 of them on a 6 cyl torana instead of SUs (3300CC) , worked great and angle doesnt matter , so 1 throttle body per lt of 4 stroke car engine , pritty close to a 500 Rotary !, hope thats helpfull to you , any efi controller can do that for you , yours Al
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Post by charles on Oct 29, 2018 20:12:46 GMT -5
I may Post some more on this Thread - maybe a whole lot more - since I have pondered this for years (decades?). We'll see...
1. There have been many injected bikes, of course and the paraphernalia is around. Why reinvent the wheel?
2. There is another part of this problem and that is, "Do we want to use that tortuous inlet tract for the EFI Upgrade?"
If the radiator could be rotated forward slightly, a single bend inlet pipe could be manufactured that would provide a straighter shot to the chambers. (Next would be variable intake length piping, as found on the Mazda LeMans winner (The TIMS System) and Crighton's CR700 P...). Alternative: Twin radiators with enough room in the middle for a straight inlet pipe (Do they have a K&N filter that could fit?).
3. The Primary Carb holes are already there and could be used for injectors. Most development in Direct Injection has moved to injection sites in the low pressure realm after the Rotor has passed the closure of the Intake Port (see attachment, if it loaded)
4. All of this could be accomplished with minimal machine work. Once you open your machine shop, you can move to variable overlap or even a Pilot Injector. ***
They didn't have "Go Fund Me" in 1976.
CW
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Post by pmcburney on Oct 29, 2018 23:56:20 GMT -5
I assume the rotor housing gets pretty hot given the continuous combustion arrangement of a rotary engine? Wouldn't that preclude mounting the injectors in the primary inlets? For info - my inlet manifold, while still retaining the pilot inlet tracts, has an adapter plate fitted which combines the three 'inlets' together into one 40mm opening. Theoretically it should allow the fitment of a suitable throttle body with no more modification. Gas flow won't be ideal, but it means I won't have to cut the radiator in half .
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Post by goandy on Oct 30, 2018 6:31:41 GMT -5
I assume the rotor housing gets pretty hot given the continuous combustion arrangement of a rotary engine? Wouldn't that preclude mounting the injectors in the primary inlets? Mazda rotaries have two injectors mounted in the intermediate housing and two in the inlet manifold. It all gets pretty darn hot there so I wouldn't be that concerned with our engines. The only thing to consider is whether you want the better idle characteristics of the primary inlet holes in the housing... maybe injection would overcome that. Certainly a throttle body style injection setup would be much easier and could possibly even be mounted on an original manifold somehow. There are lots to choose from now- Fitech in LA for example- they are even self-learning which is awesome. There are also mobs now modifying/manufacturing efi setups which look just like carburettors. No reason why that couldn't be done with one of our carbys with a bit of ingenuity... Looking at the systems Fitech now do a two barrel efi setup. Rated for 400hp so about right for our bikes.... but it's US$800 which ain't bad considering it'll self tune with a little tweaking. You could mount it sideways so the throats face in towards the engine almost like the current carby. Just need to measure up and make sure it fits. Could be a real easy option... I've sent Fitech a few questions so we'll see what they say.
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Post by goandy on Oct 31, 2018 6:08:16 GMT -5
Fitech emailed back and said they wouldn't be happy using their 2 barrel efi carby on our bikes as it's rated down to a minimum 90hp. Looks like we'll have to turbo if we want to efi like that.... Would be perfect for a n/a or boosted twin rotor...
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