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Post by Guido on Oct 28, 2016 8:04:12 GMT -5
We are total together, this are the two possible ways for the oil, I think there is no other way. Tomorrow I will take the engine oil out and fill 1 ltr of red transmission oil in the engine, than push the starter and wait until the red oil is coming out of the transmission outlet. Than stop and take the clutchcover away and look where is the red oil line. May be this "marker" shows me where my leakage is. Seal is placed absolute right old seal was also in the right direction only spacer was missing but this seems not so importend, now also the spacer is installed and all gaskets are new, but similiar problem.
Guido
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Post by timpa136 on Oct 28, 2016 13:03:16 GMT -5
Excellent idea Guido. I could send you some fluorescent dye to be used with a blacklight if you can't acquire it locally. You and Wayne covered all I can think of. Even high oil pressure shouldn't spill into the trans. One thing that I just don't know is if the engine proper might have a core plug to an oil passage perhaps hidden to view. If the proper's mounting gasket were missing, you would have other coolant leakage problems as well. \
Tim P.S. use caution when tightening the oil pressure switch or test hose. Hand tight then 1/4 additional turn only
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Post by Guido on Oct 29, 2016 6:32:20 GMT -5
Hi, today I think I found the third possible leakage. I put 1 ltr. of the transmission oil in the engine and let run the starter for long time. But no red oil is coming out of the transmission outlet. Than I drain out the oil dismantle the oil filter find the red oil, take out the fine filter also all red. Than take away the clutch cover, gasket in the connection between engine oil and transmission oil was o.k. Backside from the oil pump was also not red and nearly dry. So our two possibilities are not the reason. After that I try again to work with some pressure air and blow into the hole I think the way to the pressure regulator and than air is coming out from the excenter shaft behind the counterweight. One second later the red transmission oil is following. So I had not thought that in the engine the pressure is so high that it can pump the oil trough the oil seal into the clutch area. But I have not used much air, pressure only less than 1 bar. So than the next steps will be dismantling the counterweight and try to change the oil seal, do someone know the dimension of the seal part number 09283-48005 Part 27 in the picture. Under the post some Fotos of the work. Any advice for dismantling the counterweight to change the seal is welcome. Guido Transmission oil is on the right way This area looks o.k. also here the red oil After blowing in the lower hole the red oil is coming in a big amount When you are looking in the hole in the counterweight you can see the red drop Number 27 seems my problem
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Post by Guido on Oct 29, 2016 12:39:46 GMT -5
After dismantling the clutch, primary drive, counter weight I saw the damaged oil seal. I also take the bearing out and found a lot of very thin copper "sheets". This parts also damaged the oil seal. Is this copper from the weared bearing? I´m not sure wat I can do now.
Guido
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Post by wayne on Oct 29, 2016 19:37:09 GMT -5
Excellent work Guido. I'm afraid that seal is something I've never held in my hand.
I would think Jess, Goandy, Re5rotary, GlennRE5 are blokes who may have one of these lying around that they could measure.
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Post by goandy on Oct 29, 2016 23:10:25 GMT -5
I'm a bit confused as to these copper sheets? DO you have a photo? Could be that one of the plain bearings has failed as they are white metal over copper... That's not good news. Good luck!
I replaced the ball bearings and oil seals on my proper unit. I forget where I got them from but they weren't hard to find. The thickness of the oil seals should be as close as possible to original but won't matter if it's a little bit out. The important thing is internal and external diameter.
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Post by Guido on Oct 30, 2016 13:30:57 GMT -5
Hi, I think the oil seal is no problem I saw several parts in the internet also vitron up to 160°C is avaible. 48-62-7 The question is were get I a new plain bearing. Your remark that the bearing is copper with white metal covered fits to what I saw. Fotos are here : Guido This is the copper I mean Holder with bearing and oil seal plan bearing plan bearing other direction empty holder of the bearing and the oil seal Oil seal damaged not during dismantling there was copper in Excentric shaft right side still o.k. or not ? More and more empty it started only with a oil problem..................................................
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Post by goandy on Oct 30, 2016 23:46:08 GMT -5
If you can catch your fingernail in any of the grooves in the eccentric shaft where it runs in the plain bearing, it's not going to be happy...
If it's ok, you could try to find another plain bearing (second hand) and replace it. Some engineering companies can re-coat the plain bearings. You'd have to hunt around for that. Probably your best bet would be to find a second hand bit (bearing in holder). I would be worried about the state of the other bearings in the proper unit.
That's about all you can do for now. The only other option is another proper unit.
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Post by RESteve on Nov 22, 2016 8:01:49 GMT -5
Hi Guido, Interested to see how you're going with the RHS proper bearing and seal... After reading your story it sounds VERY similar to what may have happened to me on the weekend... I've fully rebuilt an M, including the proper a couple of years ago... It's been running great clocking up over 2000Km since the build. Last Sunday after a short warm-up ride I noticed the oil pressure light coming on and off, by the time I got back to the garage it was staying on constantly. I let it idle a short time while looking over the engine. I then turned it off and oil immediately came pouring out of the drive sprocket cover. I took the cap off the engine and the oil level was below the stick. The transmission on the other hand, the oil was visible after taking off the cap! Whatever has let go happened pretty quickly. Haven't had the time to pull the RHS cover off as yet but I now have a pretty good idea what to look for now...... Cheers Guido.
Anyway please keep us posted on how you got on... I may be luckier than most as I think I MAY have another plain bearing in the pile of spares from an old proper. Fingers crossed.
Steve
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Post by Guido on Nov 22, 2016 16:41:58 GMT -5
Hi Steve, sounds really simerly to what I have. Today I got a used bearing and put it in the right position with a lot of oil. Now I will check also the left side to see if the roll bearing and the plan bearing is o.k. What you can easily do is take the clutch cover away and blow pressure air in the hole to the oil radiator, when I did it I hear the air coming out of the excentershaft sealing, after assembling the new bearing it is tight again. Wish you luck for the next steps. Guido
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Post by Jess on Nov 22, 2016 20:00:10 GMT -5
Guido,
Hope it solves your problem. Glad I could assist.
Keep us posted.
Best
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Post by goandy on Nov 23, 2016 22:02:31 GMT -5
Good luck Guido! (and Steve although I suspect I may be roped in to help... cold beer will help)
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Post by RESteve on Nov 25, 2016 18:46:04 GMT -5
Currently you all may have to wait a month or so before I get a chance to update you on my progress. Looks like the first job is to now rummage through the spares and find that old plain bearing.....(Feel free to step in any time Andy, your always looking for something to do...) Good to hear you're back and running (hopefully) Guido. Where did you end up getting the oil seal? Viton ones sound the way to go... I replaced all the proper seals with viton rubber o rings last rebuild. On the bright side this may be the excuse to take that bloody RHS cover off again and swap the distibutor housing and new clutch pack I've been putting off... Boy I hate those long bolts they make me nervous, one is going to twist off one day. I've replaced them with SSteel but even so thats one big metal sandwich.
Interested if anyone has any history on that failure mode though... Is Guido and I the only ones? Was it a weakness or a individual fault caused by oil supply,vibration or alignment. Rotaries.....
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Post by Jess on Nov 25, 2016 19:34:46 GMT -5
Steve,
I've never seen than failure before. I can safely say that no one has laid hands on more Re5s than I. So, I think it is a very uncommon issue.
Just my 2 cents...YMMV
Best
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Post by h2e Al In Aus on Nov 25, 2016 22:03:37 GMT -5
just a thought from an old mechanic , slipper bearings don't fail like that unless there has been NO OIL FEED , at some stage , they grab and start to close oil feed hole , once it starts it just keep doing it till, NO OIL FEED ,then its all over ,I have rebuilt many (lots) of Bike and car engines , once apart ask the owner , DID YOU RUN IT LOW ON OIL !!!!, answer NO , I can see and show that they have !!!!, but they never say it ?, it would make the job a lot easier , as RE5s use oil and have oil injection there is always the chance that it could happen , and I carn't say I didnt , did it to my H2 riding to work in the 80s , NO OIL Light,and a big morgage working big hrs . ,
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