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Post by gts1000 on Jul 1, 2012 14:03:20 GMT -5
Hi there.
I have been offered some SILKOLENE PRO-2 Plus (Fully Synthetic 2 Stroke Injector Engine Oil). Is this suitable for my RE5, as I don't know what is already in the tank, and want to flush it out before I fire it up?
Biggles
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t140v
3rd Gear
Posts: 422
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Post by t140v on Jul 1, 2012 14:54:21 GMT -5
Evening Brian, the original spec for the oil that goes into the tank that supplies the metering pump was Castrol GTX 20/50, todays equivalent I believe is Castrol Classic 20/50.
The same grade goes in the engine.
I have seen numererous posts about pump failure when using two stroke oil in the injector tank so I use the tried and tested 20/50.
Regards Stuart.
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Post by gts1000 on Jul 1, 2012 18:51:26 GMT -5
Thanks for that, Stuart. Will do that then.
Biggles
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Post by bdalameda on Jul 2, 2012 1:06:37 GMT -5
Two stroke injector oil is fine - I have been running redline racing two stroke for some time in two different RE5's - I personally believe the Redline is a far superior lubricant for injecting than the Castro as it is formulated to mix with fuel and the Castrol is not. Also the injection pump on the RE5 is actually a mikuni injection pump originally designed for two-stroke oil injection systems. All suzuki two stroke motorcycles use this same injection pump just calibrated for the proper output for each engine. Two stroke oil will not damage this pump as it was designed to pump two stroke oil. Any pump failures of these pumps were going to happen anyway and not related to the two stroke oil.
I know that there will be those that disagree with me regarding running synthetic two-stroke oil in an RE5 - You will find that many Mazda RX7 race vehicles run synthetic two stroke oil mix.
I also run Redline 20/50 synthetic Racing oil in the sump. Very clean and running this combination keeps the inside of the engine and seals virtually spotless and sparkplugs last much much longer than when running the Castrol lubricant. The reports about not running synthetic in a rotary engine simply are not true. The RE5 can run synthetic oil without problems.
I am sure I will get blasted for this post and that's okay - It works for me.
Dan
Just my experience with the RE5 over many years.
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Post by riversidogs on Jul 2, 2012 7:47:41 GMT -5
I called Mobil about their Synthetic Mobil 1
and I was told that they did not have any information on the RE5 but Mazda did not recommend it thus they were not recommending it in any rotary engines.
Riversidogs
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Post by bdalameda on Jul 2, 2012 14:10:57 GMT -5
Very early on Mazda made a recommendation to not run synthetic oil in their engines. This was due to some concern about apex seal chatter and corrosion inhibition. The synthetic oils at that time had real issues with corrosion and engines that were not run regularly suffered from internal cylinder rust and sticking valves - This worried Mazda greatly regarding apex seals rusting and sticking. In addition some of the early synthetic oils would degrade some types of rubber seals and the early Mazda Rotary engines had some seal failures due to seals swelling and failing. Suzuki seals are not effected by synthetic oils and all Mazda engines now have seals that are compatible with synthetic oils. The current crop of synthetic oils offer equal or greater corrosion inhibition than petro-oils and do not degrade seals as early synthetic formulations did.
Apex seal chatter is not an issue with the RE5 or any newer Mazda engines. The low maximum 6500 rpm of the RE5 makes apex seal chatter almost impossible. The early oil warning from Mazda about synthetic oils has remained a rumor that has circulated around for many years and few people really understand what the warning was about. It has become somewhat of a rule that rotary engines should not run synthetics but no really knows why. Todays synthetic oils will run fine in an RE5 though I would recommend that a group IV or V synthetic like Redline or Motul would probably be best due to the superior clean burning characteristics of this oil. The polyol ester base of the Redline brands is extremely clean burning. I'm sure others are as well.
Dan
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Post by bdalameda on Jul 3, 2012 0:39:48 GMT -5
I have been thinking about one thing I said in above posts that may need further clarification. Two stroke oils will pump fine in the RE5 injector pump as I stated with one possible exception. If conventional oils have been run for a very long time and there is accumulated sludge or debris in the oil tank and lines - if a change is made to synthetic oil without a complete cleanout of the tank and possible replacement of the oil lines this could lead to an oil pump failure due to the cleaning action of the synthetic oil. The debris and or accumulation in the oil tank and lines could be loosened up and fed into the oil pump causing the pump and/or oil lines to plug and cut off the injection oil supply to the carb. If you want to change to synthetic lubricant I would recommend flushing out the oil tank and changing the oil supply line to the injection pump and also the injection line to the carb. Afterward completely bleed the new lubricant through the injection pump. I would do this just to make sure. The more I think about it the more I believe that the reported failures on injection pumps when running two stroke oils were probably due to not doing a complete flush of the tank and lines.
Dan
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Post by gts1000 on Jul 3, 2012 11:46:41 GMT -5
I went into my local motorfactor this afternoon and asked about the oil otions listed above. The only oil they could offer was Comma Classic 20/50, API SE CC. Would this be suitable for the engine and gearbox?
Oil filters from Suzuki are over £40, and on eBay about the same including postage. Which seems a wee bit pricey, in my opinion. Surely there is something else that will do, but will it have the bypass valve fitted (to allow oil to still flow should the filter become clogged or collapse)?
I will try some other places tomorrow.
Biggles
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Post by bdalameda on Jul 3, 2012 12:20:16 GMT -5
Not sure about the Comma Classic oil as I am not familiar with the brand but will look it up.
An oil filter for a 1996 Toyota Camry will fit your RE5.
Dan
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Post by bdalameda on Jul 3, 2012 12:40:01 GMT -5
The Comma oil ash content is a little high at 1.1% so maybe this is not the best - do you have Valvoline synthetic motor oil in your area - very low ash content. Castrol 20/50 has a .85% ash content. Redline racing has 0% ash content. Ash content is very important for RE oil as the ash content is a measure of how much carbon deposit is left after combustion. This is important on a rotary engine to insure that the apex seals remain free of carbon that can cause sticking of the seals and compression loss.
Dan
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Post by ziggystardust on Jul 3, 2012 13:41:51 GMT -5
XL 20/50, I've been using it for years. ssl11.lon.gb.securedata.net/classicoils.co.uk/merchantmanager/index.php?cPath=0_20Genuine RE5 oil filters are expensive at £40 each but over two years riding (unless you do big mileages) it's not that bad. The alternatives are about £12 each off eBay, you spends your money and takes your chance. As for synthetics and two stroke oil? I'm sure they work and it's good to read that owner's are trying other oils but personally I'll stick with mineral oil, works fine. Z |
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Post by mike500 on Jul 3, 2012 15:24:23 GMT -5
i use halfords classic 20/50 mineral in mine and never had a problem
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Post by snowrench on Jul 5, 2012 10:53:24 GMT -5
I've noticed that a lot of synthetic 2 stroke oils state clearly that they are NOT for injector systems, that they are for pre-mix only. I inquired about this and was told that these oils have a high particulate content, which damages the injection pumps. An old RE5 tech told me he uses Suzuki CCI (crank case injection) oil in all his two stroke bikes.
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Post by bdalameda on Jul 5, 2012 12:09:57 GMT -5
Hmmm - I have never seen this warning - I will check into this.
The Redline Racing Two Stroke that I run clearly states it can be run pre-mix or in an injection system.
Dan
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Post by gts1000 on Jul 7, 2012 8:33:14 GMT -5
I had another run around the local area looking for oils and filters yesterday. The Toyota oil filter looks a lot smaller than the one on the bike, and it does not include a bypass valve, so if the filter clogs or collapses, the engine gets no oil! I think I will bite the bullet and order a Suzuki one. As Ziggy says, it is not that dear over the 4k miles between changes, bearing in mind that the RE5 will not be my main bike.
All the local motor factors in the area stock Comma oil, because a few years ago Castrol weren't certain that they were going to continue to sell in the UK. All the Castrol stockist then went out and changed suppliers, rather than being caught short by Castrol, who then changed their mind about suplying the UK. Too late!
The local Fuchs/Putoline agent doesn't know what oils are suitable for rotaries either, so is not prepared to recommend anything.
Looks like I may have to order it in, whatever I decide on.
Biggles
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