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Post by grosours on Jan 26, 2016 6:58:03 GMT -5
Hi,
After more than one year I had at least a running bike, but yesterday my starter motor was found blocked. After unmounting I discovered that the commutator had exploded.
Is this a known issue, or am I just unlucky?
Thanks for any information.
Best regards
GrosOurs
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Post by charles on Jan 26, 2016 10:09:06 GMT -5
How's your Kick Starting Strength?
I lost my starters when the sprags in the clutch wore out and locked up the starter. 1-2-3 seconds and I knew that some Big Problems had occured. I had actually sourced the starter to a catalog given by the supplier but that was then 'n this is now...
Check the clutch first, assuming that you can find a working starter. Learn to use a lot of Ummph! when the Kickstarter gets to the bottom of the stroke.
You're not alone.
CW
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Post by timpa136 on Jan 26, 2016 11:09:31 GMT -5
Hi, Is this a known issue, or am I just unlucky? Thanks for any information. Best regards GrosOurs I haven't experienced it . Sorry to hear of that problem. Charles account is my first post of problems in that way. Oil level is critical to lube the sprag clutch. If you haven't allready drained the trans. oil, measure it and inspect it. Do you have a magnetic drain plug? Tim
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Post by grosours on Jan 26, 2016 14:14:19 GMT -5
Hi,
thank you for your answers.
The electric starter has always done its job, but the kickstarter has always been impossible to use, even with a 120 kg weight (about 270 pound).
So, tomorrow (European time) I will ring the bike back to the workshop, unmount the clutch and hope the sprags are OK. The starter motor is easy to find on ebay, but not the clutch items...
GrosOurs
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Post by cresco750 on Jan 26, 2016 15:30:43 GMT -5
Out of curiosity I took my NOS strater sprag clutch to our local bearing shop to see whether they were still available. While the original bearing number is now obsolete the guy there said he did find a match with a new bearing. In hind site I wished that I'd got the number from him, but I didnt.
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Post by HGH 770N on Jan 26, 2016 15:39:04 GMT -5
The starter motors takes allot of load hence the 30 amp battery to cope with the high compression you should feel through the kick start , You can burnt it out with over use on a poor starting RE5, I have NOS and used starters if you need in the UK . There are also two types of sprag clutch you will see in service bulletin and if your bike is a early model that has not been changed you may find slipping problems when cold start . some owners have found a thinner grade oil in gear box to overcome this issue . You will find that the oil if not changed regually will become like a " gray cutting past" oil that ware the chain and sprag rapidly . I have spares if I can help . Roger
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Post by re5norway on Jan 26, 2016 19:42:21 GMT -5
If starter fails the way it is explained here, with an exploded commutator, the reasone must be that the starter motor has had a serious overspeed. I have never experienced this on a RE-5, but this is a well known problem on the GT-550 and the GT-750. Both these bikes uses the 3-roller, and not the Bendix solution for the starter clutch. The RE-5 uses the Bendix solution, and a lockup of the starter clutch should then not be a problem.
Since the starter clutch obviously has failed this time, and the engine has pulled the starter motor to a serious overspeed, where it has destroyed itself. I would definitely check the starter clutc before risking to destroy another stater motor.
Gunnar
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Post by Jess on Jan 26, 2016 20:25:03 GMT -5
Been looking for 20 years for a replacement for the sprag clutch. Have yet to find one.
Since they are complete unobtainium, it would be wonderful to have a readily available replacement.
Regards,
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Post by timpa136 on Jan 27, 2016 22:54:43 GMT -5
Hi, thank you for your answers. So, tomorrow (European time) I will ring the bike back to the workshop, unmount the clutch and hope the sprags are OK. GrosOurs Curious as to what you find, measure the oil and take some Pictures if you are able to, as this doesn't happen everyday. Good points as to the early or late design sprag. Tim
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Post by grosours on Feb 6, 2016 8:24:51 GMT -5
Hi,
Thank you for all your answers.
After removal of the right side case it turned out that the freewheel worked well, but that the very thick oil (with some water ...) had an abnormally low level.
The bike was difficult to start because of a fuel leak due to a poorly positioned membrane in the petcock (problem solved in the wake), so I insisted on the starter ...
I found and installed a starter motor with a very poor appearance found on ebay but that works well. I took advantage of the disassembly to verify and replace the thermostat found locked open.
Finally, last night I had no longer any leak, the bike started perfectly (and I will now refrain myself from insisting on the starter ... and may perhaps even test the kickstarter) and reached for the first time normal operating temperature.
In short, for the first time since I bought this bike nearly two years ago it (she?) worked perfectly with no hole during acceleration!
Best regards
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Post by goandy on Feb 6, 2016 8:44:19 GMT -5
Well done!
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Post by wayne on Feb 6, 2016 15:53:09 GMT -5
Nice work !
Nothing much between you and the RE5 on the road.
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Post by timpa136 on Feb 6, 2016 16:51:31 GMT -5
Good to hear!
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Post by jm0406 on Feb 6, 2016 19:07:57 GMT -5
Always make sure the battery is in top notch charged condition. A low battery is hard on the charging system that is marginal to start with. A low battery would make the starter draw more current, and could have blown out a segment on the armature. Glad you are getting things sorted out. Jeff
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Post by grosours on Feb 8, 2016 7:28:15 GMT -5
Hi, To conclude on the starter motor, I placed the picture with the burst commutator (without the innumerable debris) below. It may be noted that the mounting screws and the rotor shaft are bent. According to the RE5 manual, the starter motor must be running at 8000 rpm consuming 80 A unloaded. But as it has a series induction, if the freewheel does not disconnect it completely it can run much faster (see an extract the Wikipedia at the end of the post). Reduction between the engine and the starter being 18, the Wankel is running at 450 rpm in this situation. As my RE5 didn't start well I released the starting switch very late (when the RE5 was fully started at 1500 rpm), which was probably the worst thing to do. I will never do that anymore! Now I push only very shortly the starting switch and repeat the action as needed. From Wikipedia: "A series motor should never be started at no load. With no mechanical load on the series motor, the current is low, the counter-EMF produced by the field winding is weak, and so the armature must turn faster to produce sufficient counter-EMF to balance the supply voltage. The motor can be damaged by overspeed." Best regards
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