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Post by ohiojoe on Jul 15, 2015 12:21:21 GMT -5
If the rotors side oil o-rings are bad and letting oil bypass into the combustion chamber, would that keep it from running? I can get it running but not continuously…smokes then just quits. When I strapped the front of the bike down in the truck, a fair ammount of black oil poured from the exhaust intake grills. How much trouble is it to replace the oil seals on the rotor sides…and are they available?
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Post by goandy on Jul 15, 2015 21:03:59 GMT -5
Low compression will most likely be the culprit but I guess excess oil won't help. You can replace the rubber o rings inside the oil control rings but the metal parts are very scarce nos. I've only ever seen one set. You can regrind the metal o rings... but you have to make the jig/lathe setup yourself. I have a bodgy electric motor with circular plate that I use to attach the metal or ring then gring it on wet'n'dry sandpaper on a sheet of glass. Your side plates could also be stuffed- worn surfaces and missing bits of moly will not help! The only way to tell is to tear it apart. Make sure you post some photos!
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Post by jm0406 on Jul 15, 2015 22:52:34 GMT -5
Don't start tearing motor internals apart just yet. Remove the exhaust and stand them on end to drain the oil. Now you can look at the rotor seals through the exhaust port and see how things look in there. Run a compression test with a proper tester, see how much compression you have. If you have good compression, either start it with the pipes off or with them on after they have drained. Jeff
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Post by Trav Man on Jul 16, 2015 2:05:38 GMT -5
Could running a rich oil fuel ratio also be the culprit?? As I know that I used to get the same on my old 2 stroke dirt bikes after running a higher oil ratio
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Post by Glenn RE5 on Jul 16, 2015 5:48:57 GMT -5
adrian@universalgrinding.co.uk Contact them for oil control ring grinding for around £40 a pair .....
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Post by ohiojoe on Jul 16, 2015 9:43:35 GMT -5
The compression is a solid 130 on all lobes. Tried it with a freshly (wd 40) rinsed combustion chamber, oil injection disconnected, starting fluid only. A large amount of oil coming in from somewhere. I may try by suggestion….connecting an air hose to the intake. Poor mans turbo? The only things wrong with this bike all have to do with rubber seals…need to invent something better than rubber….fork seals brake seals, fuelcock seals, damn seals….
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Post by Glenn RE5 on Jul 16, 2015 14:29:35 GMT -5
Have you fitted a plug adaptor and racing R1 plug ? Will start better when oil about ..mine used to pass 1/4 of a pint of oil when stood up for a month but still started all be it with a cloud of smoke ..not a cure but at least it might run and loosen the oil control rings if there stuck in ...
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Post by ohiojoe on Jul 17, 2015 11:05:22 GMT -5
I tried almost everything. I may just swap the proper unit..make it a winter project…will be able to polish the engine nicely that way. Wish whoever swapped the enging last replaced only the proper unit. It is a nice bike otherwise. I'm not sure how much less these bikes are worth with a replaced engine. Gussing its about how much more will it be worth running. It's a wash…monetarily... sell it for 4 not running….5 running. I shouldn't be afraid of ripping someone off…..Who will pay me $12,000 for this fancy machine? It Runs! Would that be its primary selling point?
So, who has a proper unit?
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Post by Jess on Jul 18, 2015 12:17:12 GMT -5
Joe,
A few things...
How do you know someone swapped the engine? Unless you have paperwork from a Suzuki dealer that shows the engine was swapped under warranty?... I am curious.
Frankly, I don't believe that it makes any difference in value if a proper has been replaced, and frankly I'm not sure how anyone can tell by visual external inspection.
Running riding and stopping is always the key with an Re5. As you have noticed from the boards, it seems to be difficult for some to get their bikes to work properly. Since there are no service centers for this bike, and 95% of Suzuki dealers have never seen one, a prospective buyer, may have a boat anchor or not... Hard to throw out a pile of cash on something that may or may not work unless you are looking for garage art.
"Ran when parked" should make all buyers run to where they parked.
I am always fascinated by folks that say... it shouldn't take much to get it running... and then want top dollar. My response is, Fine... Get it running and then call me and we will talk.
I seriously doubt that your proper is bad. That is my opinion, I have been wrong before.
If you do indeed have 130 PSI of compression on all lobes, the the engine is only down about 5% from new, as MAXIMUM theoretical compression is 138 PSI at sea level. In Denver (one mile above sea level), where I grew up, the maximum theoretical engine compression is approximately 115 PSI. Depending upon variations in altitude...you might well live at a place where 138 PSI is impossible and your reading of 130, is just like a new one. I find it incredibly hard to believe that your oil rings are so worn as to be able to flood the combustion chamber with oil enough that the engine wont start and still have only a 5% drop in compression. what you describe would require a failure I have not yet experienced, and I've laid my hands on more Re5's than probably anyone alive.
Again... the above is MY opinion, and mine alone.
I offered to look at the bike and you declined as you were attempting to sell it at mid ohio. As you did not sell it, (apparently) my offer stands.
In the alternative, if you wish to purchase a proper unit and install it for a winter project, I may be one of the only places you can get one. The ones that keep appearing on ebay are boat anchors, (again, my opinion).
Or... you can have a go at rebuilding your proper. There are some talented folks on the board who have done that job and may be willing to offer some guidance.
Just my 2 cents...
Regards
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Post by ohiojoe on Jul 19, 2015 13:41:43 GMT -5
The frame and engine numbers are about 6000 off.
Great, if the proper unit is most likely OK I will give the fuel air and ignition systems another go at it. I now have experience with a running bike, that may help a bit.
Thanks Jess
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Post by Jess on Jul 19, 2015 15:42:10 GMT -5
Re5 engine and frame numbers do not match.
6000 off is significant as they only made 6300, so I suppose it is possible that your engine and frame did not come from the factory that way. Typically they are within a few hundred. since there are no records, it is anyone's guess.
Regards,
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Post by Glenn RE5 on Jul 19, 2015 16:45:14 GMT -5
What would be interesting would be a pic of your frame number and engine number on this bike on this site ....photo bucket it ......
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Post by ohiojoe on Jul 20, 2015 11:40:15 GMT -5
The frame number is 11629 and the engine number is 16148….so they are only 4519 off….I like how this lets one edit...
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Post by redbug2 on Aug 26, 2015 6:02:09 GMT -5
Now that I'm helping my brother-in-law with this bike.... I'm not convinced that its the rotor either, but I was just wondering.... Two of my RE-5's were hard to start after sitting, they eventually came around. If your still on the forum Ohiojoe could you please fill in some blanks?
Was the carb cleaned thoroughly? Was the main jet changed to a larger one?
My RE-5 would barely get above an idle and would not take a load until the main jet was enlarged.
I also have some blue smoke on my RE-5, how hard it it to service those seals? I did find a post where someone was able to replace them with another type of seal. Can one get at the seals without removing the engine? Can the Rotor come out without removing the engine?
Regards,
redbug2
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Post by goandy on Aug 26, 2015 9:10:06 GMT -5
The proper (rotor) unit is removed from the gearbox assembly without taking everything out of the frame. Follow the book for the steps. If you don't have the book (s) then buy them! The rotor oil seals can only be inspected and the rubber parts replaced by tearing down the proper unit. Rubber/nitrile o rings can be purchased. Search for my proper unit rebuild thread for the details. The metal oil scraper rings which sit either side of the rotor are not available but can be carefully ground down to get the correct profile back. I did it using an electric motor with a backing plate to mount the oil rings on then held them at the correct angle against some wet emery paper. To do all this you need a stack of tools and also you'll need the special tools for putting it all back together. There's a template
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