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Post by h2e Al In Aus on May 22, 2015 3:58:10 GMT -5
I was thinking that we may be able to modify the Mazda 12A eccentric shaft (I have a few sitting on the shelf). A centre plate could be machined out of a sheet of Al then hardened. I wish this hadn't been brought up again. I also wish I didn't have a spare frame and two spare motors. Makes me think silly thoughts. I think that the Centre housing has to cast or machined out a solid piece of Alloy , sheet wouldnt work , a R/H and L/H housing machined and put together in the middle may work but its all an experiment the rest looks not to bad , easier than making a 5 cylinder H2 which Ive concidered , I maybe crazy |
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Post by goandy on May 22, 2015 5:00:37 GMT -5
There's no maybe. Anyone who contributes to this thread must be absolutely bonkers! When I said Al sheet I meant a piece of 50mm sheet/block. It's all actually very doable. Just nuts. But wouldn't it be so cool. I've even worked out how to get the ignition sorted with a RX7 series 4/5 pickup in the factory RE5 spot, injection from the 13B motor, microtech computer to run it all etc. Oh and scrap the idea of modifying a Mazda eccentric shaft- cut'n'splice two of the RE5 shafts with a 50mm splined spacer locked into each RE5 shaft with the rotor lobes at 180 degrees. It isn't new either- lots of similar stuff already done by the Mazda people:  For heavens sake, can we have a mod lock this thread please? I've got enough projects on my plate without having to think about doing this! |
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Post by wayne on May 22, 2015 6:04:54 GMT -5
LOCK THE THREAD ?!
Not a chance sunny boy. Your bed you're making. You're gonna have to sleep on it..............
You know, I'd ride all the way over to Wait Awhile to see that twin rotary project of yours Andy............
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Post by goandy on May 22, 2015 9:03:01 GMT -5
Don't start planning that ride yet Wayne! This may take some time...if at all!
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Post by timpa136 on May 22, 2015 10:39:06 GMT -5
A twin would cancel out the 3500 vibration inherent in a single. Bonkers indeed! Now I'm imagining a "what if" it could be done. Timpa136
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Post by h2e Al In Aus on May 23, 2015 21:57:12 GMT -5
LOCK THE THREAD ?!Not a chance sunny boy. Your bed you're making. You're gonna have to sleep on it.............. You know, I'd ride all the way over to Wait Awhile to see that twin rotary project of yours Andy............ Ha Wayne pick me up on the way over , Do we need to carry fuel on the Nullarbor due to our limited range ?? urs Al |
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Post by wayne on May 23, 2015 22:41:34 GMT -5
Fuel ? We've got 300 klm range. If you fancy doing the 4,000 klm at 60 kph that is.
Cheers,
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Post by goandy on May 23, 2015 22:54:38 GMT -5
Replace those pannier bags with two 20L jerry cans and you'll have 350km range! Just as a teaser I went to a friend's yesterday where he is setting up a cnc mill so we should be able to make up side cover badges which instead of "Suzuki RE5" will say "Suzuki RT10" as per the factory naming protocol...  |
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Post by goandy on May 24, 2015 5:12:29 GMT -5
Had a fellow RE5 mate come round this arvo. I told him about this silly idea and he was understandably amused. He then said "but wouldn't it be easier just to turbocharge it?" So I looked across at one of my storage boxes and looked at the twin little turbos sitting there... and thought... yes, a twin rotor with a turbo? Even better!
So anyway, I've done some measuring. The centre plate will have to be 45-50mm thick. Nicasil coated or some other surface hardening for the Al. The centre plate will need to be machined to accept a stationary gear/bearing assembly.
The e shaft for the primary side of the motor can be turned down so that the alternator end just after the stationary gear bearing journal is a straight shaft with a keyway in it and possibly a morse taper at the end.
The second e shaft will have the primary side cut off just the other side of the seal ring area and the centre bored out and given a keyway as well so that it will slide over the primary shaft and be locked so that the rotor journals are at 180 degrees to each other.
There will be some form of lock between the two shafts- grub screw/bolt/etc. I'll leave that to someone more cleverer and engineery than me! The whole lot will have to be re-balanced too; the current counterweights are there to counteract the single rotor's weight so useless with two there. I did think about just using straight spacers but time will tell from the balancing people.
You need to be able to split the shaft during the assembly process due to the sealing rings our motors use. It'll basically be a case of assemble one half then build the second half on top. The Mazda ones don't have seal rings so you can use a one piece shaft.
The centre plate will have oil journal in it just like the other end plates but we will have to have an external oil drain for the total loss centre bearing. That could be plumbed straight back into the sump by flexible braided hose.
The sump needs to be made out of two- quite simple though. Cut the end off one sump equal to the thickness of the centre plate and extra housing, then weld them together.
Custom exhausts which clear the frame will need to be made- maybe even frame widening... Edit: The frame is 155 wide where the exhausts need to come out. The exhausts will be around 165 wide... maybe they could be angled to get through- or perhaps the frame may need to be tweaked.
Custom rhs footpeg and rear brake lever will need to be made to allow for the whole motor to come across to the right. Probably easier to space the footpeg and see if the footbrake lever can't be persuaded to move with a little heat.
A new gearbox output shaft may have to be made so that the front sprocket still lines up with the rear...
Ignition & Fuel: If I were to do this, I would use a series 4/5 RX7 crank angle sensor guts inside our points assembly. This would trigger an aftermarket computer and coilpack, probably microtech (most common one to use on rotaries here). This would control fuel injectors as well on a custom tubular intake manifold. You could use a carburettor or two for simplicity but the ignition would still have to be sorted out (maybe another points cam stacked on top of the existing one with another points plate on top as well).
Anything else I've missed?
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Post by goandy on May 24, 2015 8:11:51 GMT -5
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Post by h2e Al In Aus on May 25, 2015 3:44:53 GMT -5
hi Guys heres some more input the centre plate only 30mm or so thick , if not to thick exhausts would work joined manifold same pipes , I have measured up and I think they made it so gearbox is in right place once you get rid of balancer and machine cases accordingly , Ignition use two of Jess pick ups in standard housing , fuel injection as you say ,yes no maybe  ??, |
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Post by goandy on May 25, 2015 5:13:54 GMT -5
hi Guys heres some more input the centre plate only 30mm or so thick , if not to thick exhausts would work joined manifold same pipes , I have measured up and I think they made it so gearbox is in right place once you get rid of balancer and machine cases accordingly , Ignition use two of Jess pick ups in standard housing , fuel injection as you say ,yes no maybe ??, You really need a center bearing and stationary gear in the center plate. That limits the minimum thickness as you need around 45mm for the gear/bearing assembly and mounting bolt protrusion. You'll also need a bolt on flange on the alternator side of the plate for the 2nd rotor gas seal ring to run on. You could try and reverse the primary side rotor and run the stationary gear on the primary side plate a la Mazda style... haven't really looked in to that yet. I think it would require a completely new manufactured e shaft though due to the way the rotor mounts on to it. The Mazda twin rotors still need front and back balancers so I don't see this as being much different. That's something to be looked at way down the process! |
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Post by goandy on Jun 4, 2015 2:18:10 GMT -5
So here's the new twin rotor e shaft. Well ok it may be a very low tech pre-photoshop cut'n'stick together idea... but the project is starting to move ahead. Meeting with a machining guy in the next few weeks to discuss options.  |
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Post by re5rotary on Jun 4, 2015 4:14:43 GMT -5
Hi I looked at this quite a few times when I had my Ro80 as that engine is really what we are talking about. Its been a while now but from memory the only snag was weight as Im pretty sure the Ro80 centre and side plates are cast iron. But an Ro80 centre plate and eccentric shaft married to RE5 housings and side plates and we would be almost there :-) regards Terry
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Post by goandy on Jun 4, 2015 5:16:07 GMT -5
Same goes for using Mazda motors- cast iron side and centre plates=lots of weight!
The RO80 shaft is also very different at the ends so would require a new shaft to be machined up anyway. RO80 parts are also really hard to find!
I really do think this can be done. The two biggest hurdles are making a new centre plate from Ali and machining/matching the two E shafts so they sit together perfectly. Everything else is just time and money!
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