The Journey begins

[gerryggg]

Some of you know I purchased my RE5M off Craig's list last June. Between a bathroom remodel, holidays and weather, the bike has pretty much just sat since I obtained it. Other than checking the compression (it's low) and disassembling the non-oem carb (it's useless) I haven't done anything. Today I rolled it into the shed and dug into it. It's going to be quite the project. Whoever had it before, disconnected the oil pump cable and wired it halfway open. The port valve is locked fully open. The engine oil was filthy and it looked like there was metal in it. The transmission oil looked brand new. I'm not sure it that is good or bad The opening to the thermostat housing was corroded completely shut. The inside of the points housing was all corroded and both sets of points are black. The stator looks good. Since I know the starter and solenoid work and it made one spark each time I cranked it, I'm pretty sure the ignition is good. hopefully I can either clean these points up or replace them. Next step is to check the clutch, transmission and rotor itself. Hopefully the rotor housing is good and I can put some new seals on the rotor. Wish me luck

[Jess]

Gerryggg,

Good luck with your bike. If we can be of assistance, let us know.

If you have a source for internal engine parts, we would love to know it, as we are not aware of any rotor internals available anywhere.

Best,

[gerryggg]

Thanks. There was someone in Ohio on e-bay who had apparently disassembled a proper and seemed to have everything but one of the rotor seals. I also thought I had read here that some people had success adapting Mazda seals. Either way, unless it's so bad I decide to part it out you'll be hearing from me.

[FC Zach]

Mar 4, 2012 7:21:23 GMT -5 gerryggg said:

I also thought I had read here that some people had success adapting Mazda seals.

If you're talking about apex seals specifically: Mazda 12a rotaries came with 3mm and 13b rotaries came with 2 & 3mm apex seals. 3mm seals are also aftermarket for the 13bs, the early rotaries (10a) are not even worth mentioning as they're rare and hard to find parts for.

With that being said, it doesn't exclude aftermarket companies such as atkinsrotary.com/store/home.php or a few others from manufacturing a 5mm seal for the RE5 motor but I would imagine the quote would be HIGH!

[gerryggg]

Don't have anything specifically in mind right now. Just thought I'd get it apart, take a peek, and see where it goes from there. But thanks for the feedback.

[Crusader]

Has anyone had any luck with Hurley Rotary?? they do NSU rotary housings and bits?

www.hurleyrotary.com/page.php?currentpageref=6267

[gerryggg]

Hurley seems a bit pricey as well. Plus, they are in the UK and I am in the US. I got the clutch cover off yesterday (after having to drill the heads off three corroded water pump screws), but got hung up when I found I don't have a socket to fit the primary drive sprocket nut. I'll try to pick one up today. I was talking to a fellow ex-Suzuki employee who was with ASMC at the time of the RE yesterday. He was not optimistic about replacement seals, but said the seals could still be good, just gummed up or the springs sticking. All I can do is get it the rest of the way apart and go from there.

[gerryggg]

Requiem for a rotor proper. Well, the journey for this proper ended today. I got the proper apart and the coating is coming off both side plates badly. The main housing itself has a few scratches as well, but the the side plates are beyond hope. Unless I get another proper, this is definitely just a parts bike.

I have some pictures of the rotor internals, but, once again, I can't seem to figure out how to post them. I don't use an online hosting site, so I only have them on the local hard drive.

[goandy]

Email them to me and I can post them up if you like. [e-mail]

Sorry to hear that your proper unit is knackered. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for mine...as soon as that 40mm socket turns up...

[gerryggg]

I'll do that tomorrow. I have my eyes on another unit as a possible source for a proper. It's a 76 and I have the parts it's missing. I'd probably rebuild this one as it's a 75. frame number #10569 and as such I think would be better to rebuild as it's an earlier model. This engine was #10268, one of the very early ones. BTW, the 40mm deep socket I ordered worked perfectly for taking off the counter weight. The seals looked to be in pretty good shape, so if I get another proper I at least have a spare set of seals.

[Jess]

The "engine number" is the inner primary number and has nothing to do with the proper unit.

Proper units had no serial number.

Regards

[gerryggg]

I understand that, but if the engine number is that low and the proper hasn't been changed (which there is no evidence that it has) then the engine is an early one. Suzuki produces engines sequentially, starting (now) with the engine number 100001 and going up from there until they stop production of the engine family. While there is no guarantee that the proper was number 268, it seems very unlikely that they would have put a late model proper in the 268th engine they made.

Update: Now that I think about it, the lead seal on the proper is missing, indicating that someone might have been into it. I suppose we'll never know for sure. All we can say for certain is these are unusable in their present form.

[goandy]

With these bikes you never know. Many propers were changed at the dealership under warranty....

Anyway, here are some photos of your engine ;D

First two show rust bubbles on the seal lip from the metal backing


Is that blueing on the e shaft bearing journal?



And here are the money shots: The side plates. Any suggestions as to what caused this? Overheating?







Apparently the coating is flaking off. Have they been recoated or maybe pre-production experimental plates? Seems very odd to me when I thought they were supposed to look like this:

www.ebay.com.au/itm/75-76-Suzuki-RE5-RE-5-rotary-engine-cylinder-walls-cases-block-/270895040477?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f129a47dd

[gerryggg]

Funny, I was just looking at the same ebay posting before coming here. Anyone have comments on the condition of those shown in the link? There is some damage, although not a lot. Those of you who have been inside of the propers before, do these look good enough to run without issues? I had looked at them before, but question whether they have damage severe enough to create problems. I've been into lots of RE5 engines, but all were in the late 70s, early 80s when we didn't break open the proper. Back then if you wanted to get an exchange proper from US Suzuki fro a reasonable price, they had to have the lead seal intact to ensure no one had been in them before. BTW, the seal was missing on mine so it's possible someone had been into it in the past.

[re5norway]

I am sorry to say that the 2 rotor side housing shown at the Ebay link are defective. The coating on the side housing is broken/peeling off, and this coating is critical for separating the rotor chambers. If this coating is broken, as it for sure is on the pictures, there will be a lack of integrity between the different rotor chambers. This will cause lack of compression and leakage of exploding gases between the chamber that is compressing/igniting, and the following chamber, which is suctioning fresh fuel/air mixture. The rotor side seals swipe around the side housings, and there should be no leakage between the chambers.
Your rotor side housings are from the very early production, which had the the sides completely covered with graphite. The ones shown on Ebay is the later which only had the squirrel pattern.